Get a 928 while you can, before the word really gets out...
10-25-2019, 11:01 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
ics,
Well said, and I think you are correct on all counts.
It's ironic that Greenspan was at the helm when this cheap money paradigm started to take flight. A disciple of Ayn Rand and a rigid proponent of the Gold Standard, he was. It probably wasn't too late by '87 to undo the work of Executive Order 11615. The fact he became a Fed Governor is paradoxical by itself. His work as Chairman was/is a mystery.
For 928 content, I used to tell my wife that if John Galt had driven, he'd a had a 928.
Well said, and I think you are correct on all counts.
It's ironic that Greenspan was at the helm when this cheap money paradigm started to take flight. A disciple of Ayn Rand and a rigid proponent of the Gold Standard, he was. It probably wasn't too late by '87 to undo the work of Executive Order 11615. The fact he became a Fed Governor is paradoxical by itself. His work as Chairman was/is a mystery.
For 928 content, I used to tell my wife that if John Galt had driven, he'd a had a 928.
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10-25-2019, 04:58 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
There are now ads to refinance homes all over the place and just like the last explosion of credit in 2000 - 2006, credit standards are being adjusted downwards rapidly. The way things are going, we will have the same liar-loans and 110% cash-out loans available. Of course I hope this does not happen, but with the Fed pouring in this much liquidity, where else can the money go?
This will be fantastic for assets prices until the Fed takes away the punch bowl.
How long is this liquidity cycle likely to last ?
I'm thinking that it can run for quite some time (3-4 years) if the Fed modulates the supply with great precision. The real question is how they manage the landing of another Hot Money cycle?
So my buying moratorium is on hold again and I'm looking forward to some reasonable appreciation of hard assets.
Bottom line? 928's have a good chance of continuing their recent upward appreciation trend.
This will be fantastic for assets prices until the Fed takes away the punch bowl.
How long is this liquidity cycle likely to last ?
I'm thinking that it can run for quite some time (3-4 years) if the Fed modulates the supply with great precision. The real question is how they manage the landing of another Hot Money cycle?
So my buying moratorium is on hold again and I'm looking forward to some reasonable appreciation of hard assets.
Bottom line? 928's have a good chance of continuing their recent upward appreciation trend.
Last edited by 928 GT R; 10-27-2019 at 03:56 AM.
10-25-2019, 05:31 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
And electric propulsion, that's the future being advocated, incentives heavily in the U.S. by the .gov, and rammed down society, like it or not. ...snip... Electric vehicles and hybrids are another story. Most are bought because of a "feel good" mentality, fueled by huge tax subsidies.
I am absolutely in favor of moving us off fossil fuels, for the simple reason that I've spent a fair amount of time, lost some friends, and seen my grandson saddled with the cost of our defending our access to them. If it wasn't for our need for cheap oil, we wouldn't be anywhere near as deep in the Middle East. Take a look at our level of involvement in Africa over the last half century to see how much we care when there isn't oil in your country.
Electric cars charged by a nationwide grid of mixed solar, wind, and NG generation? Sign me up.
10-25-2019, 06:24 PM
#34
It will take some time (30+ years IMO) before we will know if the modern electrification of the automobile leaves enthusiast collectors yearning for the visceral experience of ICE sports cars, or if petrol burners will be viewed more like we have viewed steam powered cars for the last 70 years; quaint and interesting, but not something 99% of car guys want to own.
Unfortunately for the ICE cars I'm afraid the latter will be the case as social norms 30 years from now will continue to asymptote towards one of zero emissions. Driving a gas powered car in 30 years, though very likely still legal (though maybe heavily taxed), likely will be viewed as a disgusting habit, like smoking cigarettes. Now this won't effect those reading this today because the older we get the less we will GAF about what society thinks of our driving choices. However today's teenagers are much more persuaded by social pressures than previous generations. And its these teenagers who will decide which cars are collectible in the future, just like us "oldish" folks are deciding that currently.
Unfortunately for the ICE cars I'm afraid the latter will be the case as social norms 30 years from now will continue to asymptote towards one of zero emissions. Driving a gas powered car in 30 years, though very likely still legal (though maybe heavily taxed), likely will be viewed as a disgusting habit, like smoking cigarettes. Now this won't effect those reading this today because the older we get the less we will GAF about what society thinks of our driving choices. However today's teenagers are much more persuaded by social pressures than previous generations. And its these teenagers who will decide which cars are collectible in the future, just like us "oldish" folks are deciding that currently.
10-26-2019, 01:50 PM
#35
Chronic Tool Dropper
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The "collectible 928" question comes up periodically. For those who want to get in before the next ripple in the market, we are still in a bit of a lull. A dozen years ago, "decent" S4s were selling for $5k. Now they are at least 3x that. But the money was worth more then too, so the 3x isn't nearly as impressive as it might appear on its face.
The 928 as a "collectible" is still for the benefit of the owners and the relatively small group who know what it takes to make and keep one nice. The reputation of being really expensive to own and maintain is well-earned unless you can justify your free DIY labor somehow. I call it therapy, and figure I actually make money working on the car sometimes, or supporting my fellow cult-members/addicts. And that may be the hint we need once in a while -- The 911 folks look at ownership as a religious experience, where we fall more into cult status. The only difference between a cult and a religion is numbers and acceptance though. We will never have the numbers unless 928s start falling out the back door of the factory again.
-----
Casual observation: Collecting cars solely as monetary investments as a sucky way to plan a financial future. Sure, there are some limited-production versions that might be OK, but the stratospheric buy-in numbers limit the opportunities to the fractions-of-a-percenters. If there's a definable dollar value you can pin to the joy you feel when you wander into the garage and see your investment, that's great. Nicole and I exchanged thoughts on reasons for keeping our 928s when there are very good reasons not to. I look at the car as a timeless expression of engineering as an art form, something I can admire and enjoy at will. It might not be as spectacular as some amazing architectural masterpieces, but it does fit in the garage. Few similar examples of auto engineering art are actually suitable for regular duty, perhaps making the 928 even more amazing.
Meanwhile, I drove my Honda Pilot DD to SoCal for a family event, some business, and coincidentally, the Sharktoberfest event. The Pilot is fine, but gives me numb-butt after the 14 hours of seat time each way. The 928 doesn't. The 928 doesn't seat six or squeeze seven though. A slice of the "business" part of the trip was to transfer possession of my little hoard of rare Lotus cars and pieces to a new caretaker. On the face, the "investment" in those toys was brilliant. But think a layer deeper and it wasn't. The same money, placed in an index fund, would have brought multiples of the final numbers. The cars and bits sat in crates and drums, on pallets and in bins. A lot of the "value" was that they hadn't seen the light of day in the many decades since they were new. Nobody got to enjoy them for what they are. Whether the new caretaker decides to bring them out of the womb for his or others visual pleasure is his business.
Meanwhile, a reminder that collecting cars solely as monetary investments as a sucky way to plan a financial future.
------
News flash: Tesla announced last week that there's an upcoming software flash for some of their cars that will extend performance and range. A software flash... To this EE and CS major who deals in such things at the utility level, the news is likely to be that 'competition has forced us to dip deeper into battery discharge cycles and allow more cell heating during the process'. Want to go faster and farther? It's no longer a function of actually improving a design; just dip a little deeper into the safety and warranty margins to gain a little hype. Reality is that the normal Model 3 driver isn't going to gain anything by having an extra ten miles of range on paper, or beat anybody new from stoplight to the rear of the parade at the next stoplight, so the actual risk to the battery pack is virtually none. The science of performance is moving from hard engineering to software.
The 928 as a "collectible" is still for the benefit of the owners and the relatively small group who know what it takes to make and keep one nice. The reputation of being really expensive to own and maintain is well-earned unless you can justify your free DIY labor somehow. I call it therapy, and figure I actually make money working on the car sometimes, or supporting my fellow cult-members/addicts. And that may be the hint we need once in a while -- The 911 folks look at ownership as a religious experience, where we fall more into cult status. The only difference between a cult and a religion is numbers and acceptance though. We will never have the numbers unless 928s start falling out the back door of the factory again.
-----
Casual observation: Collecting cars solely as monetary investments as a sucky way to plan a financial future. Sure, there are some limited-production versions that might be OK, but the stratospheric buy-in numbers limit the opportunities to the fractions-of-a-percenters. If there's a definable dollar value you can pin to the joy you feel when you wander into the garage and see your investment, that's great. Nicole and I exchanged thoughts on reasons for keeping our 928s when there are very good reasons not to. I look at the car as a timeless expression of engineering as an art form, something I can admire and enjoy at will. It might not be as spectacular as some amazing architectural masterpieces, but it does fit in the garage. Few similar examples of auto engineering art are actually suitable for regular duty, perhaps making the 928 even more amazing.
Meanwhile, I drove my Honda Pilot DD to SoCal for a family event, some business, and coincidentally, the Sharktoberfest event. The Pilot is fine, but gives me numb-butt after the 14 hours of seat time each way. The 928 doesn't. The 928 doesn't seat six or squeeze seven though. A slice of the "business" part of the trip was to transfer possession of my little hoard of rare Lotus cars and pieces to a new caretaker. On the face, the "investment" in those toys was brilliant. But think a layer deeper and it wasn't. The same money, placed in an index fund, would have brought multiples of the final numbers. The cars and bits sat in crates and drums, on pallets and in bins. A lot of the "value" was that they hadn't seen the light of day in the many decades since they were new. Nobody got to enjoy them for what they are. Whether the new caretaker decides to bring them out of the womb for his or others visual pleasure is his business.
Meanwhile, a reminder that collecting cars solely as monetary investments as a sucky way to plan a financial future.
------
News flash: Tesla announced last week that there's an upcoming software flash for some of their cars that will extend performance and range. A software flash... To this EE and CS major who deals in such things at the utility level, the news is likely to be that 'competition has forced us to dip deeper into battery discharge cycles and allow more cell heating during the process'. Want to go faster and farther? It's no longer a function of actually improving a design; just dip a little deeper into the safety and warranty margins to gain a little hype. Reality is that the normal Model 3 driver isn't going to gain anything by having an extra ten miles of range on paper, or beat anybody new from stoplight to the rear of the parade at the next stoplight, so the actual risk to the battery pack is virtually none. The science of performance is moving from hard engineering to software.
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linderpat (10-28-2019)
10-26-2019, 04:20 PM
#36
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Thank you for capturing the exact reason I had for buying a 928.
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JBGold07 (10-27-2019)
10-26-2019, 04:32 PM
#37
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What a meandering thread. Love it.
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Jason89s4 (10-26-2019)
10-26-2019, 07:56 PM
#38
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Eventually, we'll see an electrified 928 on Bring a Trailer. Probably an older model - smooth and futuristic then and now - a non-runner purchased for $5,000 into which $50,000 was poured, mostly for the electrical conversion. Jay Leno would say "Well done."
Will you bid on it?
Will you bid on it?
10-26-2019, 08:28 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
XS29L9B
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
10-26-2019, 08:42 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Eventually, we'll see an electrified 928 on Bring a Trailer. Probably an older model - smooth and futuristic then and now - a non-runner purchased for $5,000 into which $50,000 was poured, mostly for the electrical conversion. Jay Leno would say "Well done."
Will you bid on it?
Will you bid on it?
No.
10-26-2019, 09:02 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
XS29L9B
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
Are those sold cars?
10-26-2019, 09:03 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Eventually, we'll see an electrified 928 on Bring a Trailer. Probably an older model - smooth and futuristic then and now - a non-runner purchased for $5,000 into which $50,000 was poured, mostly for the electrical conversion. Jay Leno would say "Well done."
Will you bid on it?
Will you bid on it?
Been done.
https://jalopnik.com/this-glorious-m...int-1823461909
10-26-2019, 09:12 PM
#43
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10-26-2019, 09:16 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
XS29L9B
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
And suddenly prices are where we wished.
http://www.theparking.ca/used-cars/p...hoC1nMQAvD_BwE
and
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...=1_8_8&sprx=-1
First , i don't seen any here on the road , never had. And i do a lot of local travel. Perhaps at a Porsche meeting all those for sale cars gather….. don't know.
Second , my friend bought a GTS '92 for… 12k . OK, with some little maintenance lack… but with another 10k extra he will be "there". And what do "we" know about those ad's ? are they all fully maintained up to date and serviced ? i won't find it out
I think it's a bit like the Austin Healey story... one brave daires to ask 100k , and a thousand owners suddenly believe their car is worth 100k....but i see now a 1000 ad's at 60k.... to get 40k i think.
Don't be in a hurry , they are all still there.. for sale.
Last edited by belgiumbarry; 10-26-2019 at 10:31 PM. Reason: typo