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As a detailer, I've been using ceramic coatings for ~10 years now. One of the greatest products ever invented for detailing and ease of maintenance. You can correct scratches, but you have to polish the coating off and then reapply it to the affected areas - pretty much the same thing you have to do with a wax. To make sure you don't induce scratches into the coating, you will probably have to alter your washing method. I have always used a touch-free method that involves spraying the car with a foam cannon, letting it sit for a few minutes, and then rinsing off and drying with a leaf blower. Since there is no physical contact with the paint, no surface scratches are induced. Below is a '94 GTS with Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light and topped with Gtechniq Liquid Crystal. As you can see, the coating adds a high level of gloss, but the factor that really determines how well the coating will adhere and how nice it will look is the quality of the paint correction done prior to application. A thorough job will likely take multiple days and at least two steps of intensive polishing.
Beautiful!!
And yes, makes a huge difference In the depth and shine of the paint...crazy!
i have Andy here locally doing my 79 In a week or so.
Not “great” paint, but is still decent and I’d like it to last several more years while I have the rest of the mechanicals sorted.
My experience with ceramic coating has been a very positive one. First time I used it was on my wife’s brand new ‘13 RS5 when we took delivery and the car has since maintained a swirl free paint after 6 years. The trick with car paint is to make sure you have a good detailer that properly performs a paint correction and prep before applying and knows what they are doing. As a side note, I never use commercial washing, only hand wash with premium materials and towels. Those combined will keep your cars new.
Since my experience with ceramic, I have used it on all my other (new) cars and won’t hesitate to recommend it (if done professionally).
If the ceramic coating chips and scratches easily, what's the advantage over good old fashioned wax?
I bought a black car when I was 19 and it turns 30 years old next month. I've owned many other cars but never went with black again because of the upkeep.
Will this do away with having to deal with swirl marks or spots? From what I'm reading here, you don't even want to come in contact with it? If this was some kind of miracle product, my next new car would definitely be black.
Or if it's just about looks for a trailer queen, will it give me a deeper and better shine than this? Keep in mind this is a 30 year old car that's not even clear coat.
If the ceramic coating chips and scratches easily, what's the advantage over good old fashioned wax?
"
Not much...but...some good use cases, and some maybe challenging use cases are at hand..
First off, EVERYONE can benefit from a good old fashioned color correction, this must be done to the _highest_ possible standard before coating or..anything. Depending on the area of the car after that, you can use film, ceramic coat, or plain old wax.
There are use cases for ceramic, a daily driver, IMHO, as someone insanely protective of the finish on my black car....is not one _I_ do not think. I loved it, for a year..then the things I didn't want to see in sunlight, I see..and as the owner, you see things 10x larger than anyone else. . But if its' a parked, secured, never really gets past "really dusty". Foaming wash is great!! Use it if you can. Waterless washes require mechanical work on the surface, avoid, all costs on any regular basis...concours day, you gotta do _real_ detailing. Also I never reuse detailing towels other than my Griots drying towel more than 3x. You feel it "fall off"..they don't feel as baby-hair light on the finish anymore..its a safe investment IMHO.
After 2yrs, even with the "refresh", it's not the same as when it was put on fresh...it abrades, not the same as scratching...I mean to say it is eventually less and less 'there'..and eventually..you're back to paint or clear coat. The refresh just makes it spill water easier..for a period of time. And maybe it's me, but after more 'refreshes' I see cloudy areas in areas of some panels...where the 'refresh' has built up.
Thats not to dispel what it is, thats just how time and wear (hand and the elements work on it. It still chips, scratches, water spots stains, bird crap stains...it prevents some things chemically, but doing so it's also acting as a sacrificial layer. Accelerating wear. That's it's job.
The big thing you don't see coming.. the harness claimed, 9H, is a true hardness, but it's on the pencil scale (which peaks at 9h), NOT Mohs' scale of minerals. Ceramic coating is not 9H Garnet hardness, which is where our minds suggest to us it is.
Touching the right form of random dust on your car, puts more force on the coating than the weight of just a pencil on a wide point. Scratching is about energy and surface area. Silica dust, is everywhere, and has a mineral hardness of 7, a 10h pencil, is a Mohs 3, the scale is logarithmic, so beware touching a dusty coated car..ever. Most GOOD clear coats are a 6...on the pencil scale. Your fingernail is a Mohs 2.5..which explains the moonscape under my door handle...the ceramic never stood a chance! Coatings are measured in microns.
OTC ceramic products are nowhere as tough as professional products...DIYers, take note of that.
Some repair themselves under extreme heat for superficial "scratches"...that's cool, but as you abraid/wear it down by existing..you unfortunately lose that.
Honestly..what makes my car POP, is Griots foaming Surface Wash, followed by Griots foaming Poly Gloss. Im slowly de-ceramic'ing my car, the front is mostly Xpel self healing film now with full fenders, and bumper. The hood will be re-sprayed in Spring to resolve the rock chips that again, ceramic does squat for. Oh ya, a bra will make a holy mess of ceramic on the hood. It ever so gently _moves_...you'll see. But bras do keep the chips away on those long highway drives..even local commute ones which are IMHO, more fraught for damage. In the future with the hood film'd, I will use a strip of Xpel Track Tape where the top edge of the bra crosses the hood. You get the most wind shifting here. (
But it's killing me to own scratches I cant walk up to and just fu**ing erase casually. The last chat I had with my Ceramic Pro dealer, I rubbed a spot on the top of the hatch with a finger LIGHTLY..it's now 'foggy' with light scratches. I said "Remove it..." he said "I can't, it's scratched.." But for $250 he can strip the panel and re-coat it...
I won a Griots full detail kit at a concours, with a nice Boss orbital. Once a year polishing the car back to new, with a fresh coat of wax and sealant...has gotta be more cathartic in removing a year of visual pain than that.
Understand your use case . IT'S GOOD STUFF if your expectations are square up front..that's the advice I have.
Not much...but...some good use cases, and some maybe challenging use cases are at hand..
First off, EVERYONE can benefit from a good old fashioned color correction, this must be done to the _highest_ possible standard before coating or..anything. Depending on the area of the car after that, you can use film, ceramic coat, or plain old wax.
There are use cases for ceramic, a daily driver, IMHO, as someone insanely protective of the finish on my black car....is not one _I_ do not think. I loved it, for a year..then the things I didn't want to see in sunlight, I see..and as the owner, you see things 10x larger than anyone else. . But if its' a parked, secured, never really gets past "really dusty". Foaming wash is great!! Use it if you can. Waterless washes require mechanical work on the surface, avoid, all costs on any regular basis...concours day, you gotta do _real_ detailing. Also I never reuse detailing towels other than my Griots drying towel more than 3x. You feel it "fall off"..they don't feel as baby-hair light on the finish anymore..its a safe investment IMHO.
After 2yrs, even with the "refresh", it's not the same as when it was put on fresh...it abrades, not the same as scratching...I mean to say it is eventually less and less 'there'..and eventually..you're back to paint or clear coat. The refresh just makes it spill water easier..for a period of time. And maybe it's me, but after more 'refreshes' I see cloudy areas in areas of some panels...where the 'refresh' has built up.
Thats not to dispel what it is, thats just how time and wear (hand and the elements work on it. It still chips, scratches, water spots stains, bird crap stains...it prevents some things chemically, but doing so it's also acting as a sacrificial layer. Accelerating wear. That's it's job.
The big thing you don't see coming.. the harness claimed, 9H, is a true hardness, but it's on the pencil scale (which peaks at 9h), NOT Mohs' scale of minerals. Ceramic coating is not 9H Garnet hardness, which is where our minds suggest to us it is.
Touching the right form of random dust on your car, puts more force on the coating than the weight of just a pencil on a wide point. Scratching is about energy and surface area. Silica dust, is everywhere, and has a mineral hardness of 7, a 10h pencil, is a Mohs 3, the scale is logarithmic, so beware touching a dusty coated car..ever. Most GOOD clear coats are a 6...on the pencil scale. Your fingernail is a Mohs 2.5..which explains the moonscape under my door handle...the ceramic never stood a chance! Coatings are measured in microns.
OTC ceramic products are nowhere as tough as professional products...DIYers, take note of that.
Some repair themselves under extreme heat for superficial "scratches"...that's cool, but as you abraid/wear it down by existing..you unfortunately lose that.
Honestly..what makes my car POP, is Griots foaming Surface Wash, followed by Griots foaming Poly Gloss. Im slowly de-ceramic'ing my car, the front is mostly Xpel self healing film now with full fenders, and bumper. The hood will be re-sprayed in Spring to resolve the rock chips that again, ceramic does squat for. Oh ya, a bra will make a holy mess of ceramic on the hood. It ever so gently _moves_...you'll see. But bras do keep the chips away on those long highway drives..even local commute ones which are IMHO, more fraught for damage. In the future with the hood film'd, I will use a strip of Xpel Track Tape where the top edge of the bra crosses the hood. You get the most wind shifting here. (https://www.amazon.com/XPEL-TW4T20-T...0153314&sr=8-2)
But it's killing me to own scratches I cant walk up to and just fu**ing erase casually. The last chat I had with my Ceramic Pro dealer, I rubbed a spot on the top of the hatch with a finger LIGHTLY..it's now 'foggy' with light scratches. I said "Remove it..." he said "I can't, it's scratched.." But for $250 he can strip the panel and re-coat it...
I won a Griots full detail kit at a concours, with a nice Boss orbital. Once a year polishing the car back to new, with a fresh coat of wax and sealant...has gotta be more cathartic in removing a year of visual pain than that.
Understand your use case . IT'S GOOD STUFF if your expectations are square up front..that's the advice I have.
Thanks..I ramble. An english competition I would not win...
Nah it was well written IMO. My car is in need of paint correction/restoration/PDR so this is good info. Someday about 20 years from now I'll probably have it resprayed. But for now I was considering getting the paint refreshed. I have never been one to properly detail my cars. Just always hand washed with car soap and rags. Never properly waxed one besides the spray 'n wipe stuff. I would love to take a proper class on detailing someday.
Meguiars operates their detailing academy in Irvine, less than a day's drive from Sharktoberfest in Orange on a weekend day. Get a group together, or arrange to tag along with another group.
At what I think was the last "Devek Days" event in the bay area, we got a demo from a pretty good detailing guy. Each one has their own magic methods and secret combinations of work and product that gives them the right results. A good detailer will spend at least a day just on paint, on a car that doesn't appear to need anything. It's an investment for sure.
I cant thank RandyV enough for this recommendation.
I took my car over to Polished Protection's new Anaheim facility and Brandon and Felipe did an outstanding job. The car looks fantastic and they turned it around in 48hrs! They did a compound, polish and ceramic coat (lifetime package) and I couldn't be happier with the results. They even worked out some of the (hopeless) water spots on the windows, and they completely removed the glass scratches on the door windows from the old felt pads. They also did a great job explaining expectations of durability, repair procedures, washing protocols, etc. Top shelf service! Thanks again Randy
I had both my cars done for the tune of $1500 or more. Waste of money. The prep on the Black GT was crappy on the hood. Had to polish it off and correct what was sealed under the ceramic. Can't say the gloss on either car is any better than old fashion wax, spray sealants, detail sprays. Don't waste your money............
10-03-2019, 04:21 PM
. But if its' a parked, secured, never really gets past "really dusty". Foaming wash is great!! Use it if you can. Waterless washes require mechanical work on the surface, avoid, all costs on any regular basis...concours day, you gotta do _real_ detailing. Also I never reuse detailing towels other than my Griots drying towel more than 3x. You feel it "fall off"..they don't feel as baby-hair light on the finish anymore..its a safe investment IMHO.
