Concerning smog experience
 

CA to be more specific. I get it - other states either have no smog or lesser hoops. This will change.

I went to 5 places as I drove the 79 to warm it up and get the cat hot. I know it will pass - but it has no interior, etc. Its just so it can be registered and driven on the street (and parked).

Each place had a slightly different view - but the idea is that they don't want to do cars that required the Dyno and evap check (which the 928 can't anyway). They want to make thier 50 bucks by plugging in an OBD2 and seeing if there are codes. Done (ripoff).

So now, what I find CA is doing is slowly tightening the noose on the cars that they deem need more test scrutiny. I found a place that may do it, but I left the car there (its fine - its a 500 dollar car that I don't drive). We will see if they can figure out the start sequence and how to get the CF hood open. :)

I have to seriously look into the Montana registration process. At least for the extra cars that are suspect for CA (Though to be clear, the 79 is bone stock - just almost 40 years old).

If this doesn't work I may have to go another route...

I ahvent seen this noose 'tightening', I see the maximums drawing down as the system is reading more GOOD cars than bad ones, and adjust for the fleet accordingly.

A maximim dirty car, has nearly dead cats..and should be fixed.

A good car, will move anywhere from 2 to 20 HC's, and be at about 20% of the maximum. Hardly a small hoop to dive thru. I have absolute proof that a perfect car with no cat, cannot pass smog. GB and I spent two days looking for "the problem", replaced absolutely everything, before reaching for a new cat (928-113-219-00)..and that was it.

HC's are simply 20-30 over allowable maximums with a dead cat.

www.flickr.com/photos/28804666@N08/shares/3838c7

My cat was likely killed since my last smog..because of 1 or 2 bad injectors...I was painfully rich before those were replaced with new. Nothing in the entire system made a difference after that. Entire air and fuel system was R&Rd and validated at Greg's

Ya..it cost money, but over 30yrs, it's nothing.

A smog check told me I had an issue, glad its fixed.

I had no issue moving a rolling shell only thru an inspection..."Got a project car for my kid" is a good opener for those situations.

must be in an unusual area, BC...i'm not in SD anymore but there have to be 30 places with rollers and sniffers within 10 miles of me up here.

i STAR-smogged my 944 here in January.

BC--

Oregon has a no-tests reg, but the car has to be here for a VIN check initially. K has a client in SoCal who also owns a home near here. They were shopping for a new Audi here to save on sales tax and reg costs, then take it home to L.A. to drive there on the cheap. I suggested that the primary driver get her Oregon DL so she could play the part if she was pulled over. Didn't happen. Cali has a pretty strict penalty fee for those trying to avoid the costs and aggravations of keeping a car there.

We later found out that the client had used our address for the new car reg so we could forward the plates to them when they arrived from ORDMV. It will be an interesting exercise to see how long she can commute from Thousand Oaks into Burbank a few days a week without getting busted with the 'foreign' plates.

the problem is the STAR rating. stations will loose their star rating if they fail too many cars. not the fault of the station....

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/STAR_Program/index.html

because older cars that are pre ODB2 require the sniff test and the dyno in most areas. these more commonly fail and the stations are more complex and expensive to run. So most elect now to do only the plug-in-the-obd port and collect $50 way to do it.

It'll work great, until someone behind her in traffic turns em in.

I cant find it, but years ago I heard of a program for this.

I think im the only CA car in my parking ramp at home..heh.

I have the same issue in the east bay. When I had to get my Boxster Star checked I had to call the dealer for a shop. Seems I live in an area the BAR cracks down on bad smog shops so no other shops want to risk it. There just isn't enough profit in a smog check to deal with specialty cars.

my 89 S4 one shop told me to leave because there was no check engine light, nothing would change his mind.

Which is odd, because the CE light is the -last- step in the test, for a reason. Its specifically not a pre-fail item.

We have a few 928 safe paces here in san jose you can visit, and I know one in santa cruz as well.

I had a STAR place in OC where the owner was a car guy and claimed a 928 in his past. I still took the car to him for testing even after I moved north to L.A. county. Took the other cars to him as well. Need to support the people who support us.

Year after year we hear about doomsday prophecies, usually from California residents, about the day when all 50 states will be subjected to the same regulations as California.

When in fact the complete opposite is true. Year after year more states realize what a waste of time and money it is policing older vehicles that statistically spend so little time on the road they are irrelevant when talking about overall emissions.

Wisconsin was one of the first, they drew a line in the sand and said only ODBII cars will be subjected to emission testing. The state was losing money testing the older vehicles and enough was enough.

The number of households with a car 23+ years or older as their only means of transportation is practically irrelevant it's so small, and shrinks year by year. The smart politicians recognize this and know any house hold with a car 23+ year or older and a newer car in the garage, the older vehicle is not a primary means to get around. Such vehicles should be regulated the same as other hobby vehicles, like boats, ATV's and airplanes (many which still run leaded gas......and some are worried about our cars??)

I'm fully aware with a simple flip in administrations this could all change. If we allow a totalitarian tyrant into the White House who has zero respect for the sovereignty of the 50 states which make up this union, we may all have to scramble to find functioning air pumps and OEM CATS to install.

Until then, be sure to vote in favor of our hobby and politicians who are not ignorant to the fact that our hobby isn't doing squat to the world environment. These such regulations are a tax on the working class who always seem to have the quietest voice, even though we often pay the highest price.

So..that Howard Dean rant gonna help BC?

I always end up having to get my 928s STAR tested every time I get them smogged :rolleyes:

All the STAR shops I have dealt with have a dyno and are willing to do the car. Here in Thousand Oaks I have a smog shop I use that mainly deals with exotics like Fcars, AMGs, etc. and they aren't phased by the 928s at all.

They even make sure the car has the best chance of passing by keeping it running etc.

I think the trick is to find a good shop that others have used and that have dealt with 928s in the past.

It's much less hassle than having someone smog the car that sees it as a liability.

I honestly just hope these rules can be relaxed so there is only an emissions test and no longer a visual inspection at least.

It shouldn't matter what is powering the car so long as it is clean out of the exhaust.

Here in Texas, at 25 years you're an 'antique' vehicle and there are no more inspections. Personally, I advocate keeping a beloved collectible well tuned and running the way it should, and after that, as Hacker says, it's driven too few miles to make any difference to air quality.

I understand the argument California is making that everyone should play by the same rules, and when I'm there I'm amazed how nice it is to drive behind a 1960s car and not choke on noxious fumes belching from the tailpipe. But again, as a practical issue, the millions of late model cars on the road are what drives air quality and where the rules should be aimed.

I have a place that refused to do a rolling emission test as the owner was a cool car guy and when I approached him about testing these he called the state to find out there was no rule in place that said we had to do it on the rolling road. This helped a great many of our cars pass since with an auto, you were lugging the engine to maintain the RPM required to test.

In my county they look to see if your lights are working, no check engine light is going off and it costs us $7.00 now. Much less vigorous than it was in the past. Many counties no longer require any testing. Hackers got it right, there was a time when the way Ca went, the rest were to follow, no longer the case.

+1
Recently happened here in Ontario, Canada with a new Government.

The Canadian Press : Published Friday, September 28, 2018 11:22AM EDT
The Ontario government is scrapping the Drive Clean vehicle emissions testing program effective April 1, 2019 and replacing it with a new system that will focus only on heavy-duty vehicles such as transport trucks. The Progressive Conservative government says the Drive Clean program, which tests emissions every two years on cars and light-duty trucks over seven years old, is outdated and no longer effective.

In a news conference Friday, Premier Doug Ford said the program worked well when it was introduced in 1999 and but grew less useful as the automotive industry adopted more stringent emissions standards, "Drive Clean was created almost 20 years ago but 20 years later, the family car now creates much less pollution. So Drive Clean has outlived its usefulness," he said. "Only five per cent of vehicles failed the test last year, compared with 16 per cent in 1999, and the trend is expected to continue" the government said.

Other opinions have also been that the older cars were only used occasionally by hobbyists and were in much better condition than cars driven for daily commute.

California is in the enviable position of having a climate that allows cars to last a lot longer than they might otherwise. In the densely-populated coastal regions, cars are crashed or stolen long before there's any issue with corrosion. Result is that there are a lot more older cars being kept alive and driven. The annual inspection program is a Good Thing, especially for folks who have lived there long enough to remember air quality in the 1960's. Our last home above Los Angeles enjoyed a view of the basin on most days. On the not-most days, you'd never know that there were millions of people, cars and buildings hiding in the vapors down there. Prior to Cali stepping in with their own emission standards starting in the early 1970's you could depend on summer days having a brown blanket, and warnings for ozone and PMs. Even in winter the air quality was deplorable. It has slowly improved thanks to better cars and better enforcement. It seemed to me that the standards for a particular car I owned were getting tighter with each inspection, but research eventually told me that I was wrong; test standards stayed the same.

Fast-forward to where we are now. Plenty of older Cali reject cars live here, and they stink. Seriously. Eye-watering stink. Population is in the 150k range for the region, and we have old and newer cars, plus wood-fired winter home heating still popular. For all the crowing about the clean air and fabulous recreational opportunities, there are still days when we get "stagnation alerts", with human and natural sources make more junk than the wind can blow towards Idaho and other points east. Pollution we generate, wherever we happen to live, persists until absorbed or reacted into something else. Just because I don't see choking concentrations where I live doesn't mean that someone downwind isn't enjoying the fruits of my car exhaust.

[/soapbox mode]

I remember seeing the pictures of the smog in the '70's in the LA basin and couldn't imagine living in it. The 3 weeks I was there in the '80's everything looked good but you couldn't tell from the news stories always put out. Looked like modern day Hong Kong. We get air quality warnings here in my area and they are a joke. When it hits red levels the locals start harping on about fracking or anything else they deem the topic of the day. Look outside, take a deep breath and smile at the clear skies.

I think you guys are missing what I am saying.

When I bring the 928 to smog, more often than not, they won't be interested. Because the way the system works, its part of thier livelyhood gone if they get fined, etc. They don't know that I am not a threat. I can't just tell them that I am not a threat.

I don't want them to know too much about the car. I have said this before and been called out, and I stand by it. I want them completely ignorant. Pass the fing car with the tailpipe. Don't go in there with a flashlight and rummage around.

Guy just called from the 6th place (where I left it monday) - "I thought it was a 924 - we don't know about these cars so I can't test it. Come and pick up your car"

Do you know many 20 year old mechanics? The world is changing, and the dark side is that the CA government doesn't want old cars on the road - and so they are indeed making the system harder to navigate. Even if its not published that way.

I cared more when I drove the cars daily. Now its just an irritation. In 15 years when some activist government says you can't even drive it on the road, lets talk again. On the other side, my 2014 vette doesn't need to be tested apparently until 8 years after its manufacture - after jan1 2019.

The shops here don't make any money on inspections ($0.00), so they want them in and out as fast as they can.

I'd say it's past time to leave Ca.

Then you can pay to move him.


There's a threat for whinging about politics, and which state's bag is fuller.


Lets help BC find a resource...because the rest of us here dont run into these issues, and wanna help...where ever he is.

One thing to keep in mind is that obdii can be used to determine if a car is running properly. Newer cars have multiple o2 sensors that determine if the cats are functioning properly. This has effectively removed the need for roller based tailpipe testing. Check the obdii for codes, and be done with it. of course if you've reset it with your own reader, they'll catch that too. And pre- obdii (97ish) will still need to be looked at. The manufacturers have become their own testers, and the states can save money relying on those data.

My smog guy says he seeing evidence that OBD2+Rollers may be coming to select models soon, going to be harder for the Manuf to cheat a wider range test, than an idle one I guess.

ANyone know where BC lives?

I'm sure that comes in part from the vw diesel cheating . What bc said above is interesting, they don't test new cars until they are 8 years old. I know the manufacturers need to warranty all emissions equipment for 10 years. i guess if they fail at 8, the manufacturer will still need to fix under warranty.
last i heard bc was down in the San Diego area. Not exactly sure which town.

The weather where I am is wonderful. The people on average are very nice. The politics (usually) don't interfere with our lives. It irritates at this level because I see trucks and cars from mexico who clear are here for a while and stink. The 928 is clean.

I am in San Diego. The issue is that my time is limited during the week and the car is street-parked. It draws attention from the ( insert stereotypical group here) people in my neighborhood think its abandoned as its not a silver or white lexus/honda/nissan. So I get "visited" by the police or parking people about it.

Im sure we have people there that know people/places be glad to help.

We should definitely dump on Idaho. It's really the only attention the state gets besides its reputation for potatoes. They need all the public castigation they can get. It puts them in the news; potatoes just aren't that exciting.

Back at the turn of the century we had a local group of "environmental activists gone wild" (someone should make a video). Anyway, a group of activists in Teton County Wyoming started a campaign against the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) over the hill between Blackfoot/Idaho Falls and Arco, they called it "Plutonium Free Powder". Obviously they were children of trust funds living in Mom & Dads Tax Haven and "Doing Good" while skiing their butts off and having wild sex as often as possible. A whole lot of alcohol was accidentally consumed in the process. Teton County Wyoming is the only hard blue county in the entire State. 97% of the county is owned by either the Federal or State governments. Teton County, for some obscure reason, absolutely hates Idaho and would, I think, gladly blow it off the face of the Earth if it weren't for the fact IF has the only Mall in a 150 mile radius; God help IF when some developer builds a decent Mall in Jackson. One with a Nordstroms (OK, maybe a Macy's. Saks would be EPIC!). The entire state of Idaho could turn into a smoldering pool of radioactive glass in minutes. It's no secret Wyoming (not to mention Montana and the Dakota twins) have nuclear arsenals. It could get ugly.

All that aside, nowadays, the only people who can afford to live in California are unemployed and have a propensity for "Doing Good" on Mom & Dad's account also. Those who don't have that luxury seem to be willing to do whatever the trust fund babies want, thinking for some reason that, since it happened to them, it might happen to us? These are the same folks who's retirement plan involves winning the state lottery and, in the immortal words of Hacker (as memorialized by SeanR), are the reason there are instructions on boxes of Pop Tarts.

Meanwhile, the rest of the country is trying to decide if they should follow California's lead (bad idea) or consider an armed takeover of the entire State (good idea). History only will tell this tale...

PS: Mark my words though; Teton County will be the first in Wyoming to outlaw rodeos.

Or..just procure a MT LLC. T

Yeah, that works too. I thought my story was more entertaining...? :)

Besides, WY is better than MT; no income tax. It's why Jackson Hole exists. Want to buy a truck? Run up to Bozeman, no sales tax.

OK, here's a few cents worth from a guy who's been there and done that(more than once).

CA smog, circa 1978. It was baaaaaaaad. If you think driving around in it or standing on a ridge was a problem, you should have tried to FLY in it. In late summer back then I was over the Vincent Thomas bridge and I could NOT see the Torrance airport! I mean it was Right There, but nope, couldn't see a lick of it. I reported 'field in sight, making downwind' anyway. Once coming in the other way, I came over the hwy 14 pass down into Van Nuys, and literally had to follow the nav aid all the way to the airport. 'Uh, Van Nuys tower, I think I'm overhead at 2200.' Anyway, I also contributed lots, and lots of carbon to the cause with my big block V8 boat and no emission equip. Or the dune buggy with supercharger and running 13:1 mixture. Oye vey...

Of course, I had some dirty old cars too. Surprised no one has mentioned or used the BAR referee program; https://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Refe...e_Centers.html I took an Avanti there three years in a row. It was a Paxton supercharged monster that would never pass smog, no matter what the limits were. Go to the referee, they drool at the car a bit, we take a look under the hood, and - yup, all the right stuff is there. Go take a drive, do a little 'warm up driving', back to the station and they sniff it. A little tweaking of the dist, a little tightening of some hose clamps and viola'! they have Made An Improvement! Job done, no matter if it makes the book number or not. All they have to do is show they have reduced the reading from where we started. I caught on to the program and would keep a dirty air cleaner and put it on just before visiting the referee. Allow them to open up the canister and say 'aha! there's your problem, this air cleaner is all gobbed up!' Well, guess what? I just happen to have a new-in-box air cleaner in the trunk. Lickem-stickem, have a nice day.

Don't get me started on the Peoples Democratic Republic of CA govt. I know way more than most and none of it is good. However, they can not(yet) force your car off the road. I think it's the hippy left in Moonbeam or something. But - they can make you do some hoop jumping, and that's not a bad thing if it does catch the once in a while flivver that is running real bad. One referee was telling me about a lady came in with an old Rambler Classic from mid 60s. It had a V8 in it, but was only running on maybe 5 cylinders at idle, and maybe 6 other times. He spent an hour with it, and she brought in all the tune up parts and when she left, it was like a new car! plugs, points(remember those?), wires, cleaned the carb a bit, air cleaner, PCV valve, and the choke was sticking too. She hadn't changed the oil for 3 years, oye vey, so he told her to go to a Pep Boys for a $14 oil and filter with coupon. She was driving that thing every day, getting maybe 12MPG, and pumping tons of CO NOx out. But - that is the outlier, to be sure.

Anyway, if it fails, get in touch with the referee. Back in the day, they were mostly cool because they got to see all the weird cars. When I was there once, there was a guy with a 40 Ford with a 1970 427 Vette engine in it. I asked him what they did then, and he said they base it on the engine make and year. If it would pass smog for a 1970 Vette he was good to go. It passed, and the guy was on his way.

Hacker is right, many states are devolving their insp programs on newer cars. The mfg have to have 10 years on emission parts, so they tend to overbuild that stuff(except the modern Ford diesels). No sense testing all those cars when it only generates a 0.002% failure rate, and when they do fail, they only fail by a few PPM. Waste of time and money for everyone. Texas is a big state. In major cities, all cars are tested under 25 years. Outside of major metro areas, there is no testing because there is no way to test them for 150 miles maybe. But - for DFW it is a good plan. I want them to keep up the work just so we don't have more smog issues. I've had the full Monty back in the 70s in SoCal, don't want to repeat it.

Well, we all had the full Monty in the '70s, it didn't much matter where we were. For my part it was San Jose, I guess you were in LA. Pretty much the same problem though, explosive growth and a prevailing onshore wind.

Thankfully it's gone now and has been for nearly 50 years (that would be half a century. A long time. Longer than most people born in 1900 lived). It isn't getting worse, has admitedly and demonstrably gotten better, and there appears to be no reason to make regulations more stringent, even after the population of California has tripled over that time. Ridley Scott's vision of Los Angeles didn't materialize? We won. Life is good. Time to beat our swords into plowshares.

So these ongoing attempts to make regulations stricter seem like a waste of money and a general irritation that has no real purpose? Like so many recent social initiatives, wasted motion; running around in circles and banging pots together. Pointless?

Let's declare victory Doc. We deserve it? For us, the war is over. If California is the canary in the coal mine, we're still breathing. We're fine metabolically, but we're suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder; we've gone a little bit crazy and we needs some help. Soon.

I'm borderline anarchist, and yes - we did win. But we can win some more. Here's where things are going vis-a-vis SoCal smog, and the CA coast in general. Every day there are hundreds of container ships coming into Long Beach and of course bay area, and Sandy Eggo ports. Every day they sit with engines running, and dump a few tons of CO and NOx into the air. Since they come from way outside of CA jurisdiction, one would think there's nothing we can do about it. But - there is. Through state regulations there is a clamp down on running the engine in port, and also soon to be emission requirements for offloading at the 5 commercial ports in the state. Intl carriers are screaming about it, but then one gets to think about a many thousand ton ship, with a few thousand HP 2 stroke diesel just blowing hot smog for hours on end. Also, comm diesel trucks are coming in for some oversight, and buses have already been tackled.

At the other end of the scale are some of the more stupid regs, like the penalty for a 5 gal dump can of gas. Use a dump fuel can, pay $10,000 fine. There is a method to the madness, but I'll say there are cases that just boggle the mind. For some examples go here: https://calepa.ca.gov/enforcement/en...and-judgments/ . Trust me or read it that the CA EPA takes no prisoners. Here's a snip from a recent case:

" Failing to implement, maintain, or submit to the responsible CUPA, a complete 10 hazardous materials business plan for each of the Facilities, in violation of Health and Safety Code 11 sections 25505, 25507, and 25508, and California Code of Regulations, title 19, section 2650; 12 4.3.t. Failing to implement and maintain a business-emergency plan for emergency response 13 to a release or threatened release of hazardous materials, in violation of Health and Safety Code 14 sections 25505 and 25507; 15 4.3.u. Failing to implement, maintain, and comply with an employee-training program on 16 I hazardous materials meeting the requirements of Health and Safety Code section 25505(a)(4), and 17 California Code of Regulations, title 19, section 2659;"

Note that this is all make-work and has nothing to do with the actual release or potential release of any kind of hazmat. It's all paperwork violations. But - they are getting their pound of flesh, and it's now the cost of doing biz in CA. This defendant got off cheap. Half mil $ fine, and a bunch more papers to be filed, and make-work for managers. I would opine that the amount of smog generated by investigating, and bringing this case to judgement actually cost more hazmat and enviro damage than it prevents. But - it's only an opinion. One more thing before I go, if this kind of car, truck, boat, and comm idiocy were confined to the good folk of CA(I was one of them for a long time), I wouldn't have a problem. But - ALL of the companies that CA gets its pound of flesh from are national chains, and the lawyers fees, fines, and idiotic make-work represent a real dollar cost to those companies, which is allocated to the corp as a whole, and has to be accounted for with higher prices for EVERYONE, including other states. If this defendant just closed up shop in CA, and dropped all their CA specific requirements, the cost of my broccoli would likely go down half a penny per pound, and we would be environmentally better off, not going through the whole hoop-jumping out there.

I carry the broccoli home in my 928. (required content)

I recently read a report that the top 7 container ships in operation today produce more atmospheric pollution annually than all cars in existence worldwide. Any substance to that?

BC - smog tech doesn't need to know jack **** about the car.
they have a handy-dandy reference book broken down by every year make and model, ever, and it's got a table showing what kind of emissions equipment are on that year/engine.
they look at the book, they trace the hoses on the vac diagram, check for a cat, skip the gas cap on a 928, and they can test.
maybe tell em they can charge you a little more than their $50 OBD2 rate for the extra time.

Some smog techs don't know jack siht even when they have the hood open and book laid out before them. Took my 87 in to get it smogged in CO, forgot I had removed the air pump belt due to siezed bearing until I pulled into the inspection line. Figured what the heck I'll do it anyways.

Watched two guys ponder over the engine and look around for about 10 minutes, some head shaking. They put it on the rollers and put it through an extended test. I'm sitting there thinking I'm going to get called into the principal's office (lived previously in CA). Guy rolls up and says this thing runs cleaner than some new cars. I smile and say thank you and bolt out of there.

I also read a study on the cargo ships. Cars are a less than a drop in the bucket on emissions compared to the largely unregulated ships idling away.

That "book" is not correct for my '89 model. I had the good fortune of finding a smog guy fairly local to me who knew the cars and just check-boxed through the stuff they don't actually have. Once a relationship was established, the checks were very routine. "Changed anything since last time?" was pretty much the complete visual. He hired a guy, and coached him through the car and the testing needed. I helped him translate the vacuum diagram on the hood to all the actual lines and components, since the diagram is rotated 180º from the view from the front.

Eventually they'll require a fuel system vapor test since there's no gas cap seal to inspect. There never will be a check-engine light, in spite of there being a place for a bulb behind the cluster. It's virtually impossible to confirm the cats and the air pump piping with the trays installed, unless you lift the car. Where's the vapor cannister? I don't see it... At least the book doesn't claim there's an OBD-II port.

New cars report their own malfunctions, and sniff for excess tailpipe CO themselves. They depend on the coil-on-plug built-in diagnostics to say if a plug isn't firing well. At some point in the life of the car, some statistical threshold will be crossed and they will sniff the tailpipes while the car is sitting on the rollers. Looking for NOx and HC, the telltales of deterioration in combustion quality.


This will all go the way of the wind soon. Electric buggies don't spew tailpipe gasses unless a passenger farts. For a while, emissions will be centralized at power plants. As we get more wind and solar, the focus will move towards what's spewed from the battery factories and what to do with the worn-out packs. Any combustion-based range extensions will be hydrogen-based, and the junk from that will be localized again as long as the hydrogen comes fractioned from hydrocarbons.


Be ready!

Mostly I'd agree here, but I'll maintain there's a technology disconnect somewhere between "emisions will be centralized..." and "combustion-based range extensions will be hydrogen-based..."

The disconnect concerns base load power generation, which can't be solar, wind or petrochemical in this universe; it has to be nuclear.

The only efficient way we'll be able to generate electricity to charge our capacitors (not batteries, capacitors) and also produce hydrogen as a bi-product is nuclear. Maybe, someday, (certainly within the next 50 years :)) it could be thermonuclear, but I've already held my breath for 60 years and I'm not inclined to keep doing it. So there.

I'm hoping one day politicians will let there be a standard reactor, a breeder reactor, and a refining centrifuge plant on the same campus. No more waste or possible accidents transporting spent fuel.

It would be the be all end all of power generation with our existing forms of power generation but this is a topic for OT ;)

I'm just hoping that California passes laws on the emissions of ships that dock in our harbors. It would force practically every manufacturer to make their ships cleaner and actually have a sizable impact on pollution like cats did back in the 70s.

Howdy. Smogs can be tough. I was going to ask what region in Ca you are in, but then I see a post for San Diego. Probably not the most convenient since they are in South Orange County, but if you are interested I can call my prior mechanic on Monday and ask what smog shop he used for my '87. At least you can get the cats hot on the way up to the shop.

If interested Pm me and I'll send their contact info over to you.

The bulk of the dispatchable capacity in the state is still fossil, natural gas at this point. The other "renewables" like geothermal, solar and wind tend to be run at whatever their capacity is at the moment. Not a lot of nuclear remaining, and what is running is there because it costs more to shut them down than it does to run them. Plus those owning utilities can't so easily shift the financial liability to ratepayers from shareholders. I'm just waiting for original San Onofre backers (ratepayers) to remember that the units were shut down well before end-of-life. A couple utilities and a city would be bankrupted.


This is where wind and solar can shine. Charging vehicle storage units or making hydrogen is not particularly schedule-sensitive. From the T&D side, manage those less-sensitivedemands dynamically so that more sensitive loads don't go brown.

Well, I was thinking more of Diablo Canyon (just down the road from me), they're producing de-salinated water and there's been talk of hydrogen too. Maybe that's not the best example since that's an old design and not too safe. PG&E would probably be better off de-commissioning and replacing it with a low pressure design I think. Instead they're just going to take it off line in a couple of years with no plan to replace it. Somehow I expect that approach to be stopped before they're allowed to turn off the lights in LA, but CA has been known to do some pretty crazy stuff in the past when it comes to public utilities so I could, once again, be taken by surprise.

Solar works fine for cracking water, matter of fact I was a big fan of that back when I was in HS. I designed a hydrogen powered RV I planned to build so I could tour cross country with my band of merry pranksters, pulling up to lakes and streams to re-fuel using my "easily deployed" solar array! You'll have to forgive me, I was 16 at the time. But I was convinced I could make it work as long as I didn't have to be anywhere on a schedule... (later that year I landed my first paying job and the harsher aspects of reality set in. I never have built that RV).

Ya...uh huh..

https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...ity-1536000502

I am in Mira Mesa - San Diego. Its back on the street, but in risk whatever meter-maid shenanigans may be on the ego of whomever comes by.

It has no headlights right now, but this was not the issue stopping people. It was the age, and "What is a Porsche 928". Interestingly the thing is stock with all vac lines and air box in place.

My OP was not about this car only. This has been an issue for years here, and its inconguous because of the reasons stated above with industry, but also the smoking cars that come up from Mexico. I don't want to have to go the full route of registering these cars elsewhere but I will if I have to.

South Orange is fine as I do work in Irvine (68 miles each way to work), though this car is on this side of being okay to drive that far, simply from a "non interior" and "Gee, whats that whining noise from the rear end" perspective. Its been sitting outside after being painted in primer for over a year.

Ok, a couple of catch-up things to mention. Lunchbox nuclear fission reactors. Not really lunchbox size, but fit in an engine bay size is eminently doable. When back at Gulf-Gen Atomic long ago and far away(right up the coast from Sandy Eggo) we had a nice little 2 ton unit that would put out around 23KW, or a bit more if pushed. Size/weight has surely come down since I left the biz back in 85-ish. It - could - be - done. But, no thank you. I do not want more commercial fissile material out there, and moving cars/trucks/buses/trains around with fission would give me the willies. The real problem is the waste product from re-fueling. Nasty, messy, long term isotopes decaying out back of the corner Texaco. Negative ghostrider. [edit to add; Here's an interesting link to the nuclear engines designed to power an airplane. Yes, we did investigate the potential for a nuclear bomber that could stay aloft for weeks at a time(like a nuke sub which stays down for weeks also) on a nuclear powered engine: http://mentalfloss.com/article/53184...lear-airplanes , fascinating stuff, a bit before my time though ]

San Onofre. Units 2 and 3(the bigger ones with the containment domes) were deactivated due to completely unrelated cooling exchanger issues. Unit 2 is decently built, but unit 3 is an outstanding reactor. Runs very hot, very linear and very uniform. Few hot spots, and a nice power gen curve. Unit 3 should be restarted, but I doubt it ever will go on again. Without getting into the details, once a reactor grid goes cold for a while, it's pretty hard to get it running smooth again. Some of the framing can take a set, and get infused with particles that make it too brittle. Of course, the whole thing, including the moderator Ax Man control rods and assembly can be replaced, but it's maybe pretty costly. Hard to know unless a complete exam of the pressure vessel and framing is done.

Diablo canyon has never run right. They go up and down more than a 30 dollar whore. It wasn't set up right from the beginning and has had all the common and some of the uncommon issues that plague PRW multi-loop reactors. the worst of which is thermal coupling where the reactor is out of sync thermally with the closed loop of the cooling system. This has required several weird shutdown scenarios, and a couple of emergency steam dumps(non-primary). Plus it's sitting on bad faults, and it's had more than its share of electrical delivery issues like transformer pops, etc. I would let it shut down on schedule, and hope for the best. Diablo canyon was the post-post-Three Mile Island design that was done by mostly QA people, rather than qualified nuke engineers.

The future of fusion is a dead end. Fission occurs naturally on Earth. Some small percent of all U ore on the planet is fissile. All we are doing with fission is harnessing and controlling this natural power. The only place we find fusion is in the center of our Solar system. I seriously doubt that within 20 of my lifetimes, with the smartest group on Earth working on the problem that there will ever be a fusion sustained reaction with a positive power output. I know, I know, some outfit has said they have a plus beta for a few microseconds somewhere. Well, they can't do their calormitry right, which is a common problem with testers who are tied to govt or private funding. Gen Atomic has pretty much given up after 25-ish years of trying. They aren't much closer today, and there are no paradigm changing designs, or ideas out there that will contain the reaction for more than a few microseconds, for a few millimeters of fuel. Sorry.

Glad the car is back on the road(somewhat). Take it to a referee station and they will help with long term smog concerns. There used to be a referee station in Clairmont area, not sure if it's still there. Been a while since I had to do anything with them.

If parked on the street even if it's currently registered where I live it has to be moved (used). 72 hours is the max for not moving it, then they tag it. Usually it's some neighbor that turns it in.- to lessen the chance of being tagged as others have suggested register it elswhere
where they don't require smog checks. 6 months out of reg & they can tow it without notice 22651 (o)
Then they give you 72 hours to move it. After that, they tow it at your expense. No headlights= Calif vehicle code 22669 (d) . Other codes they can get you on= 22669 (a) , 22651(o) & 22651 (k). Voice of experiance here, The parking gestapo tagged a van of mine that was
currently registered and insured - they mark your tire & the street . You can't win. I feel for you

Meantime if the fees are paid up, you can get a 60 day entension ( a red stricker ) that you put in the rear window- cost is $ 50- in addition to the fees- it will give you some time to come up with a plan- it is a one time deal- not renewable

Sorry for going off topic BC, understand you have a more immediate concern. It's strange, but the community of folks who frequent this board have, shall we say, "diverse" expertise? My personal background is all over the map, but you'll find other generalists like "The Docs" that are perfectly capable of discussing the ins and outs of nuclear and thermonuclear power until the cows come home.

It gets really hairy when we descend into quantum mechanics :) ...

Regards,

BC,

It took 4 tries for me last November, the first 3 places each said their machine was down. One place I didn't even get a chance to get out of the car, guy just walked up and said sorry can't help you. Guess those old blue CA license plates are a giveaway. Another place told me to check back in a week, maybe they'd have it fixed by then.

I was finally able to find a place, Dekra smog in La Mesa, corner of Dallas and Fletcher Pkwy. It's a STAR station too. I was in and out in about 30 minutes.

I've always had to pay extra to get my '79 smogged, and if I recall it was above and beyond the non-OBDII price too.

The tech did mention that a lot of the shops just don't want to fool around with these older cars, hence the machine is down a lot.

Raymond

Whey would they want to fook around with the older cars if they make the same 50-60 bucks with just a code read? They should just exempt certain cars, and make it easier to do so.

California honestly believes people who maintain old classic cars should be punished. It doesn't have anything to do with pollution anymore.

I don't think its that malicious. I just think the SJWs have invaded and taken hold and they don't even believe in industry, let alone cars.

I think its a sign of most people dont vote.

Nobody likes it, yet it's still there..

And don't hide behind buckets...people that show up to vote make policy. People that dont use their vote well..make up names for those that do.

SJW is just the latest name/excuse.

"Well, to some extent yes, but it's also a sign of bureaucratic overreach; many of the rules and regulations imposed in California don't result from a vote on measures or specific issues and are rarely faced with a referendum."

A better example than the smog rules and the gas tax might be shown by the California State Park service laying claim to the entire California coastline as a "state park" under its administration. I don't recall ever directly voting on this nor voting for a state representative who ran on a platform indicating support for the claim.

According to various park rangers I've spoken with (I own property that's an in-holding in California's oldest State Park so I talk to rangers a lot and I also volunteer to do trail maintenance and K9 search and rescue, which brings me into more than the usual amount of contact with State Park Rangers), there are no beaches in California where dogs are allowed off leash. Various local municipalities have chosen to ignore this claim (Carmel, Moro Bay, etc) and either openly allow dogs off leash on their beaches or "turn the other way" in certain areas that are only known to locals by word of mouth.

That's probably a better example of "creepy regulation". Few if any approve of it, but it remains a de facto State "law".

I have no issue with labels. It helps society deal more efficiently with its naturally forming tribes.

I think I paid closer to $75-$80 last time around, which I thought was pricey. I've always had to pay a surcharge to get my 928 smogged. Years past the car would be up on the rollers for a few minutes, they'd shut it down and then the visual inspection would take about 45 minutes. The issue for the future is how difficult is it going to be to find a place to smog test an older car. That is where maybe a waiver program might be required. I've thought about registering it in a county that only requires smog test for title transfers too.

The cars from BC (that's Baja Cal, not your place) are not as bad as they used to be 5-10 years ago. They're stricter at the border plus they have their own smog checks now too..just like California.

If I read this correctly, the op BC is taking his car to private shops in CA fo a state required smog test, and those shops are refusing to Perform the test?

Not refusing to Pass him, refusing to even inspect and measure his car?

That couldn't be more absurd. Can he call the State and report that "no one will measure my car" and have the state measure it?

Clearly there's a version of privatization that's failing miserably.

How can he be required to get it tested, but the testing stations are not required to test it?

Requiring the car to meet the same standards it met when new is one thing, but this is an entirely different level of obscene.

Nor do I, and frankly I consider it a cheap shot. The folks named in the moniker "Social Justice Warrior" are self-aware and self-organizing, as I mentioned in an earlier version of my post that I accidentally deleted when I tried to clarify my opinion (fat fingered it).

SJW is a label that was both created and adopted by the demographic it's meant to represent; it isn't something imposed on them, they're self-described by the label and they embrace it as a badge of honor. Making the claim its use is some sort of criticism is just as absurd as condemning the use of the word "gay" to describe homosexual males; the community itself embraces the designation. It's truly advanced identity politics to condemn a "strait" individual for using the term "gay" to describe the gay demographic, but we've managed to endorse this sort of persistent "victimhood" as normal.

It was (is) a social phenomenon carefully and completely described by a novel written in 1961 titled "Catch 22" by Joseph Heller. While it makes no sense, it's literally endemic in western society.

It isn't really about the word(s) itself. It is more about the context it is used in.

Yes, exactly; a violation of the hidden rules? Not much different from talking or writing about ******s? That's a group that can make self-references with impunity, but woe be upon anyone outside the demographic who uses the word.

We call it linguistic Marxism?

PS: I see our host practices censorship and linguistic Marxism? The "N" word isn't even allowed as an example, or subject of debate?

If we can't even talk about it, how are we able to understand it? "Itsa Catcha Twentytwoa".

PPS: I'm reminded of a book on this subject written by Hanna Pitkin titled "Wittgenstein and Justice", a book I consider a seminal work on the subject of the role of language in determining the boundaries of consciousness. Worth a read if you have the time.

Actually found a place to smog the car, as an update. A smog test place next to a car wash in Poway, CA.

He was happy to take a look, leery when I got there, and then the computer said something to the effect that this car shall not be issued a certificate. He had no idea what it meant. I think its user error on the shorter vin, but he verified it visually.

I called the referee today to see what they say.

/update

"I see our host practices censorship"

Not at all.

They're not the government.

You're welcome to say anything you want on your own web page however.

Our host does practice censorship. I think what you meant here was that, just because our host isn't the government, it's not illegal? They can censor whatever they like, they're private people, just as anyone else with a website of their own can practice censorship? No law against it.

It's still not censorship. You are not being suppressed..IB just wont publish some of what you may want to say.

Its IB's private system. You can have your own wall on the internet where you can publish anything you want.

And not illegal also..you have no 1st rights in someone else's space.

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but it's still 'censorship'.

Wiki:
Through their representatives on here (Hacker is one), they choose to suppress (remove) certain things.

I personally don't care about profanity, but some do.
I do like that PAs & threats are kept out of the discussions (censored).

Spoke to Referee today.

Looked up VIN and plate. Unable to find any smog history. Doesn't understand in his experience how the car has a plate if it never had a smog.

Stumped, in his words.

He suggested speaking to the DMV.

I see the same thing around Orange, smog test places don't bother to fix a roller system or pay for the updates, or lose STAR status. I had a great guy within walking distance down the street, worked on 928's back in the day, and knew what things NOT to do that can make an older car fail. When I stopped in last year he was on a 6 month suspension of the STAR rating. I tried the "go to" tester in town and OBDII only, his roller wasn't working. I did find a shop, $80 and it passed, but with a 928 and bank fired injectors it only takes one slightly hinky injector, a few percent lean or rich vs the rest and Nox or HC will fail.

Parking on the street, wow, that sounds sweet, NONE anywhere around where I live. Somebody with some juice with the city bought the house on the hill above us and a week later "NO PARKING" signs went up the full length of the street leading to their driveway, and it was the only place around to park.

Glad the car is back on the road(somewhat). Take it to a referee station and they will help with long term smog concerns.

Miramar College

10440 Black Mountain Road San DiegoCA92126United States If the engine is stock, and the smog stuff is on it, the referee WILL do the best they can to either approve it, designate it as a gross polluter(you still get to register), or will tell you what you need to do for registration. I can't do anymore unless I fly out, take the keys, drive to the referee, talk to the people there, show them my smog rejection, ask for a fair inspection and move on with life.

BC:

What an odd hole your car fell into with the DMV, keep us up to date. :(

Doc - SPOKE TO THE REF. See above. He has NO IDEA. Suggested I call the DMV.

Called the DMV on the way to work today. 54 minutes on hold. Each time they updated the hold time, it increased. At 54 minutes, it disconnected me. I will try again.

Montana LLC for the problem cars seems like a great, easy path from here.

Is the no smog history an issue due to non 50 state, or what? Have you checked, https://bar.ca.gov/pubwebquery/Vehicle/PubTstQry.aspx to see if the vin exists with bad character?

I am finally getting close to removing the last bits off my 84 Euro parts car, which has a valid Calif BAR sticker, let me know if you would like it vs going to the metal guys. Not much left on the chassis, but special bonus it has TWO Calif registrations, one salvage title and one with a misspelling (8 vs B something like that).

I have always had good luck with the guy at Newport Smog on Bristol street- http://www.newportsmog.com/. Literally at the end of the runway at John Wayne, other side of the 73.

Speed? It's censorship when I write something that IB won't publish. Period. You can call it editorializing, wrap fuzzy puppies around it, but in the end it's censorship. It's not illegal, it's well within the purview of the publisher and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it is censorship. It's OK. IB has no obligation to publish any of the dreck I write, none whatsoever. I agree with you, though that may seem strange.

Can mods remove the Political stuff from my thread please.

Have not had the time to call DMV since last update. Too much fun driving the Vette to work today.

For smogging my '79, my mechanic offers what I call "concierge service". There is a smog shop across the street from them, and when it's time for a smog I take it to my mechanic and have them do an oil change, and then have them get the smog done. I don't know exactly what they do but I'm pretty sure they do a pre-test of the exhaust and make sure everything is running like it should be. I've never even been close to a failure. When I come to pick it up they always rave about how clean my car runs. Very low numbers.

The key here is that there's a relationship between the smog shop and the Porsche mechanic. They know each other, do a lot of business together, and cooperate. All within the law. It probably costs me a little more to get it done but I will likely never have a failure associated with my car.

Schneider Autohaus, Santa Barbara. If you're interested. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Greg Brown does something like this too.

He does, I did the same when I had work done last Fall.

Yep, Greg has taken care of smogging my GTS every other year from 2010-2016, had to do it myself this year as the deadline snuck up on me and I took it to the guy on Bristol the day before the registration was due.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/smog-test-only-san-diego Is where I take my 911 and 928 . He does a lot of modern high end cars.

Its funny you mention that place. When did you last visit with an older car? I have done like 8 cars there but he said no last time I drove by.

Called DMV. DMV rep did not know much about what to do. With no smog history since its already a CA car, it is in limbo, even as it is in PNO (planned non-op).

She gave a number for the BAR. Number gets through but disconnects.

Not really sure where to go from here. I could be driving the car or my son could be using it. 9289201364 is the vin.

Strange. When I call the Wyoming DOT (WYDOT) a guy I've know for 15 years usually answers the phone after 3 or 4 rings. Helps me right away, never have a problem.

I wonder if we figured the population load on WYDOT (per capita dollars spent) and compared it with other states, would we find the ideal funding level? The one that yields timely service at a reasonable price? We know it can be done since WYDOT's doing it. Maybe they could serve as a National Example or something. A fellow I respect very much (professionally) once counseled me to "catch people doing things right". This might be an opportunity.

Called the BAR again today. Guys reminds me to not drive the car at all, tow it to a smog place, etc. Yeah Yeah.

That said, he suggested essentially to ignore everyone else and just go smog the car as if it is a new move to this state. Don't mention plates or anything. I will try that.

Except for:

1. The bounty hunter system California has to rat on your neighbors which brings in a few $million annually:
https://www.chp.ca.gov/notify-chp/ch...tion-violators)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Reno/commen...ghbor_for_not/

2. Cat is out of the bag. Georgia is all in going after Montana registrations and other states are soon to follow. How long before CHP takes an active notice of all cars with Montana plates?
https://jalopnik.com/georgia-is-crac...ing-1830035589
https://www.wral.com/luxury-car-owne...heme/17948672/
https://www.ajc.com/news/luxury-car-...DX8EuvYzgNo6J/

Out of state registration you are pissing off two agencies, CARB and the tax man. The second one is far more dangerous than the first.

Yep. Clear.
Issue is I ALREADY PAID the california tax man on these cars I would register. I am thinking about how to carry proof of that. The laws as written today focus in on the use taxes and the initial purchase tax.

If someone is staaling from you, you get up set about that..dont cha?

Or...you're ok with that?

I dont do it..but the optics are pretty bad...

You gotta car nice enough to have a "high fee"
You're of the resources to create an out of state LLC..or..you've bee hired to work some nice tech company.

Now you wanna eaaaase out of the cost to register yer car here, with all that visually going on for you.


Why shouldn't a neighbor rat you out when you're wearing a sign asking for it?

You're taking their money...that's how they see it.

Your registration comes with a receipt detailed with all that.

Quite a few folks living in Wyoming buy cars in Montana for the reasons described, it isn't illegal by any means and you run some real risks buying a car from a Wyoming dealer; the one I bought my Durango from back in 2000 ended up being driven into bankruptcy for cheating on warranties. Much safer to buy from a Montana dealer, thats how I got my 2005 Chevy K3500 Dually Crew cab. The sticker price was lower and there wasn't any sales tax.

Usually you switch the registration the following year. It's pretty much an "accepted practice".

If you domicile your cars in different states (which is legal btw) you should pay attention to details. If you get pulled over in CA with WY plates and you have a CA license you're gonna do some `splainin, so it's best to have a license that matches your plates. If you're in CA driving a CA registered car and carrying a WY license, they aren't going to complain much if at all. I register some of my cars in CA and keep others in WY. That's OK, it's called "apportioning".

Speed is right to bring up the LLC situation too, it's good to have the title held by an in state LLC. Avoids all sorts of hassles.

This is still no reg sticker right?

I have not registered it. DMV works less hours than I do so I would need to have passed smog to get a full reg at a DMV satellite office.

Part of my 928 ownership experience is AAA with the premium 100 mile towing. The DMV people at AAA earn my annual membership each time I don't have to visit the real DMV.

As I understand it until it passes smog and the reg tag is on the car you are subject to pulling over and a ticket, even if just parked on the street. I set all my cars up on the DMV site to give me an email notice for renewals, so its almost normal business for me to pay the fees in a timely fashion and not do the smog until months later. Each time I finally took one to smog I needed a (all they will give now) one day moving permit or risking a ticket.

looks like you need to schedule a 25mph vacuum leak somehow...lol

I am not into it. I am selling the car as I have numerous other projects. Time was wasted, but I learned a lesson about how to get cars "Legal".

*technically* the seller has to provide a smog cert to sell the car.

true- but not if he sells it to me :)

The other loophole is buying a car on a mechanics lein.

No smog required.

The buyer will have to smog and VIN verify it...which is a simple inspection of the VIN tags on the car to make a -new- registration for it, not just a new owner renewal on an existing active VIN record.

Sell it non op and no smog either iirc.

Also if you read the text of one of the ebay charity car auctions they say for Calif buyers they will provide "either" smog cert or cert of non compliance.

Thats interesting.

Because at the car auctions in Monterrey, you will hear about cars that cant be sold to a CA entity..for smog cert reasons.

I never have, and I have never asked someone to do it for me. Because thats just stupid.

If the car sells for enough money the cost of suing to make the seller provide smog or cancel the sale becomes practical. Not so much a much cheaper car.

Specifically they may be talking about a 49 state car, that can't practically be registered in Calif.

At the regular auctions in California - not classic specialty sales- cars come through with the disclaimer " dealer or out of state buyer only" meaning they didn't pass smog and they won't / can't be sold to the general public. You must show a dealers lic or out of state address . Even equipment belonging to the state that was diesel powered had this disclaimer when they toughened up the regulations on diesels.

Why is it stupid?

Its a liability issue..why should I be on the hook for a car that cant pass smog in a sale?

No reason a 49 state car that isnt brand new cant be registered in CA.

You said "reason" and Calif in the same sentence, I don't think you can do that.

There are a few exemptions to the law. As a California resident, you may be able to register a 49-state vehicle if it was:

• Obtained as part of a divorce, inheritance, or legal separation settlement.
• Purchased to replace your California-registered vehicle that was stolen while you were using the vehicle out-of-state.
• Purchased to replace your California-registered vehicle that was destroyed or made inoperative beyond reasonable repair while you were using the vehicle out of state.
• An emergency vehicle, pursuant to California Vehicle Code § §27156.2 and 27156.3.
• Registered by you in the state of your last active military service outside California.

I got that mixed up with buying a new car not in CA...
But forgot one "If you are moving to California from another state, you may register a new 49-state vehicle if it was first registered by you in your home state,".

Does anyone still make a 49 state car?

Well, I can see your liability issue, but from a consumer protection standpoint, its a business that will have that onus, and I would agree. From a personal sale perspective, I don't see it. Buyer beware. You sell me a cell phone for 1000 dollars and I get it home and it won't... do something or is in some way broken that I was not able to see - what is my recourse with you if you are less moral person than expected?

Also, what recourse if you even have as a buyer other than not buying it? I buy it and say, no issues, where in court am I asking for my money back?

I did it this way myself this year. In fact, I just got it smogged a few weeks ago.
Now what about the tags? Do I have to go back to the DMV and pick them up? Or is the DMV automated enough now that they'll just show up? They haven't, yet.

Its a slam dunk in CA to sue for the damages incurred to get the car past smog.

So...it protect you as a seller, and you as a a buyer.

Your trust in humanity has someone else's grubby hand in your pocket buying a car with no smog when required in CA.

The hope is you wont come back for damages...plus the original transaction.

If you buy a car for $5k, and put $1k into it..and pull the escape line on fixing it further to pass smog, the seller owes you $6k...and you wont be standing in court long to get it. Buyer ignorance on requiring a smog cert from the seller wont help them. Or if $1k fixes it, they owe you $1k.


Of course, if we know what WE are getting into, and its a deal you cant pass, its your risk..

I cant figure why you would call requiring a cert to sell or buy it not worth it..I dont want other peoples hands on my money.

You have to go in..again, AAA.

5 minuts.

We are the only state I am aware of that does it. Its strange as the exact people who will run into a problem in this area (older cars, cheaper cars, poorer people) will be the ones most affected - like most of these types of rules. I can see how it protects the consumer. But if you look at it another way, and extend the logic into the real issues surrounding emissions from all sources, the amount of rules and regulation around this one issue seems overdone. Either way, I am done with the process in most cases because I have already paid sales tax and will title problem cars elsewhere. (And by "problem" I do not mean "unclean" - I just mean "Headers (With cats, I am not a murderer), ECU tunes, and Shtuff like that"

That's not looking at it another way.

That's entirely changing the subject.

It has nothing to do with A) You have to smog a car to sell it and B) It's a reasonable consumer protection law.