I got screwed so bad but it's time to give up
10-24-2018, 08:55 PM
#31
Racer
Thread Starter
I think Stan mentioned it above, but all you have to do is pull your sparkplugs and inspect them. You will know the winner of the failed head gasket lottery by the way the plug looks. It will look steam cleaned compared to the rest. Like it just came out of the dishwasher. I would do this before you do anything else or even begin to worry about replacing engine guts. Pull all 8, label them one at a time and post the group picture here.
BTW - You mentioned in your first post that coolant is leaking into the oil, but how do you know that? Did your oil look like chocolate milk or was it possibly just condensation buildup at the top of the dipstick and oil filler cap? Any signs of white smoke with sweet smell out of the tail pipe?? I'm optimistically hoping you just have condensation due to all the other projects you have completed. (knock on wood) If you think it may be condensation, take it for an hour-long drive and then see how your oil looks.
BTW - You mentioned in your first post that coolant is leaking into the oil, but how do you know that? Did your oil look like chocolate milk or was it possibly just condensation buildup at the top of the dipstick and oil filler cap? Any signs of white smoke with sweet smell out of the tail pipe?? I'm optimistically hoping you just have condensation due to all the other projects you have completed. (knock on wood) If you think it may be condensation, take it for an hour-long drive and then see how your oil looks.
10-24-2018, 08:58 PM
#32
Racer
Thread Starter
I think Stan mentioned it above, but all you have to do is pull your sparkplugs and inspect them. You will know the winner of the failed head gasket lottery by the way the plug looks. It will look steam cleaned compared to the rest. Like it just came out of the dishwasher. I would do this before you do anything else or even begin to worry about replacing engine guts. Pull all 8, label them one at a time and post the group picture here.
BTW - You mentioned in your first post that coolant is leaking into the oil, but how do you know that? Did your oil look like chocolate milk or was it possibly just condensation buildup at the top of the dipstick and oil filler cap? Any signs of white smoke with sweet smell out of the tail pipe?? I'm optimistically hoping you just have condensation due to all the other projects you have completed. (knock on wood) If you think it may be condensation, take it for an hour-long drive and then see how your oil looks.
BTW - You mentioned in your first post that coolant is leaking into the oil, but how do you know that? Did your oil look like chocolate milk or was it possibly just condensation buildup at the top of the dipstick and oil filler cap? Any signs of white smoke with sweet smell out of the tail pipe?? I'm optimistically hoping you just have condensation due to all the other projects you have completed. (knock on wood) If you think it may be condensation, take it for an hour-long drive and then see how your oil looks.
10-24-2018, 09:53 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
In the end Gomez, it should always be fun. Even the frustration should be fun in a weird kind of way. I run up against things like this all the time with both the 928 and the 944, and I really do have to take a step back once in awhile and remind myself I do it for fun, it's a hobby. I don't do it for money (certainly) and I don't do it for charity. I do it for entertainment, the challenge, it keeps my mind sharp. Gives me something to talk about and something to fight with (yeah, be honest?).
From it I find accomplishment, focus, purpose and camaraderie. How much is that worth?
From it I find accomplishment, focus, purpose and camaraderie. How much is that worth?
10-25-2018, 11:44 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
So far you have not posted anything that shows how you "got screwed so bad." It looks to me like you got what you paid for - - a well used 928, and you even drove it home. Perhaps the seller is refusing to honor the 3 year unlimited warranty he gave you in the deal, and that is how you are screwed, but you haven't said.
10-25-2018, 12:36 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I took to mean by circumstance.
10-25-2018, 01:12 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
In the end Gomez, it should always be fun. Even the frustration should be fun in a weird kind of way. I run up against things like this all the time with both the 928 and the 944, and I really do have to take a step back once in awhile and remind myself I do it for fun, it's a hobby. I don't do it for money (certainly) and I don't do it for charity. I do it for entertainment, the challenge, it keeps my mind sharp. Gives me something to talk about and something to fight with (yeah, be honest?).
From it I find accomplishment, focus, purpose and camaraderie. How much is that worth?
From it I find accomplishment, focus, purpose and camaraderie. How much is that worth?
10-25-2018, 02:55 PM
#38
Official Bay Area Patriot
Fuse 24 Assassin
Rennlist Member
Fuse 24 Assassin
Rennlist Member
16v 928s appear to have the same problems as 944s when they get older, there is always some headgasket failure by a water jacket, causing either the cooling system to pressurize due to leaking compression, or in the worst case both coolant in oil AND pressurization. 2v heads on these cars are straightforward for removal, but I can't remember the amount of space you have in a 16v car. I know that since these motors use head studs rather than head bolts (32v) it may warrant an engine pull for proper clearance during head removal.
Good luck on whatever route you choose.
Good luck on whatever route you choose.
10-25-2018, 07:12 PM
#39
Racer
Thread Starter
So far you have not posted anything that shows how you "got screwed so bad." It looks to me like you got what you paid for - - a well used 928, and you even drove it home. Perhaps the seller is refusing to honor the 3 year unlimited warranty he gave you in the deal, and that is how you are screwed, but you haven't said.
10-25-2018, 09:41 PM
#40
It seems there’s an incredible amount of cars that are willed to somebody or belong to “widow” and it’s usually an uncle and aunt of the person listing the car. Am I crazy or is this way of people passing off known problem cars so they can say later, “hey I didn’t know any of this stuff, i was just trying to help my poor aunt Sylvia in her time of need!” Obviously we’ve all bought decades-old European sports cars, so we have a mental illness on some level and we get what we deserve, but this widow story comes up again and again.
10-26-2018, 06:24 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
It seems there’s an incredible amount of cars that are willed to somebody or belong to “widow” and it’s usually an uncle and aunt of the person listing the car. Am I crazy or is this way of people passing off known problem cars so they can say later, “hey I didn’t know any of this stuff, i was just trying to help my poor aunt Sylvia in her time of need!” Obviously we’ve all bought decades-old European sports cars, so we have a mental illness on some level and we get what we deserve, but this widow story comes up again and again.
We are at the time when folks who would have bought these cars new are dying off.
The survivors are often reluctant to sell the cars due to the memories that are attached to them, yet they don't (or can't) drive the car.
Perhaps the now deceased original owner didn't (couldn't) drive the car for a number of years.
Yet the cars were well kept, when the owners were 'up and around'.
So the "It ran great when it was parked, but my dad (uncle, husband, ect) had a heart attack/stroke/dementia onset/ect and couldn't drive it anymore" may well be true. That doesn't change the fact that sitting for long periods of time can cause issues. Or maybe the car wasn't kept up as well as it should have been after the original owner stopped driving it.
So these cars have to be properly inspected, and valued for what they are (long time sitting, somewhat neglected, often not running).
No different from any other 'sitting' car.
It may sound a bit cold, but the car isn't worth more because it's owned by a 'little old lady who lost her husband'.
There was a "widow owned" 78(?) with very, very low miles that came up recently. One of the more prominent comments was about not wanting to 'rip her off' by underpaying for the car. Both by the person asking the question and by those responding.
Yet it had a lot of issues, and ended up selling for a fairly low amount for those miles, but not for condition and what it needed.
Or it could be that the seller is just a flipper (buying a car and selling it without transferring the title) and the story about the 'aunt' or 'family friend' is nothing more than a 'sob story' that's intended to jack the price up.
10-28-2018, 09:52 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
I don't think so.
We are at the time when folks who would have bought these cars new are dying off.
The survivors are often reluctant to sell the cars due to the memories that are attached to them, yet they don't (or can't) drive the car.
Perhaps the now deceased original owner didn't (couldn't) drive the car for a number of years.
Yet the cars were well kept, when the owners were 'up and around'.
So the "It ran great when it was parked, but my dad (uncle, husband, ect) had a heart attack/stroke/dementia onset/ect and couldn't drive it anymore" may well be true. That doesn't change the fact that sitting for long periods of time can cause issues. Or maybe the car wasn't kept up as well as it should have been after the original owner stopped driving it.
So these cars have to be properly inspected, and valued for what they are (long time sitting, somewhat neglected, often not running).
No different from any other 'sitting' car.
It may sound a bit cold, but the car isn't worth more because it's owned by a 'little old lady who lost her husband'.
There was a "widow owned" 78(?) with very, very low miles that came up recently. One of the more prominent comments was about not wanting to 'rip her off' by underpaying for the car. Both by the person asking the question and by those responding.
Yet it had a lot of issues, and ended up selling for a fairly low amount for those miles, but not for condition and what it needed.
Or it could be that the seller is just a flipper (buying a car and selling it without transferring the title) and the story about the 'aunt' or 'family friend' is nothing more than a 'sob story' that's intended to jack the price up.
We are at the time when folks who would have bought these cars new are dying off.
The survivors are often reluctant to sell the cars due to the memories that are attached to them, yet they don't (or can't) drive the car.
Perhaps the now deceased original owner didn't (couldn't) drive the car for a number of years.
Yet the cars were well kept, when the owners were 'up and around'.
So the "It ran great when it was parked, but my dad (uncle, husband, ect) had a heart attack/stroke/dementia onset/ect and couldn't drive it anymore" may well be true. That doesn't change the fact that sitting for long periods of time can cause issues. Or maybe the car wasn't kept up as well as it should have been after the original owner stopped driving it.
So these cars have to be properly inspected, and valued for what they are (long time sitting, somewhat neglected, often not running).
No different from any other 'sitting' car.
It may sound a bit cold, but the car isn't worth more because it's owned by a 'little old lady who lost her husband'.
There was a "widow owned" 78(?) with very, very low miles that came up recently. One of the more prominent comments was about not wanting to 'rip her off' by underpaying for the car. Both by the person asking the question and by those responding.
Yet it had a lot of issues, and ended up selling for a fairly low amount for those miles, but not for condition and what it needed.
Or it could be that the seller is just a flipper (buying a car and selling it without transferring the title) and the story about the 'aunt' or 'family friend' is nothing more than a 'sob story' that's intended to jack the price up.
You make quite a few good points. Many 928's are being passed along to heirs and coming on to the market after varying periods and conditions of slumber.
At best are immediate sales to friends of the owner who are 928 enthusiasts who know and love the car. Recently I acquired Snow White, she was owned by a fastidious owner who never neglected the car in any way during his life. But when his daughter inherited the car in 2014, she barely drove it and the gas was starting to get that funky smell and she went four years on the same coolant (oil changed once). I commend her for not letting the car go completely fallow and letting go of "attachment without enthusiasm".
Bringing these cars back to life is one thing but bringing them to the performance levels they were delivered from the factory with is quite another level of involvement.
Here's to those that go the full monty and enjoy the process!
Enjoy!
10-28-2018, 12:01 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
WJ,
You make quite a few good points. Many 928's are being passed along to heirs and coming on to the market after varying periods and conditions of slumber.
At best are immediate sales to friends of the owner who are 928 enthusiasts who know and love the car. Recently I acquired Snow White, she was owned by a fastidious owner who never neglected the car in any way during his life. But when his daughter inherited the car in 2014, she barely drove it and the gas was starting to get that funky smell and she went four years on the same coolant (oil changed once). I commend her for not letting the car go completely fallow and letting go of "attachment without enthusiasm".
Bringing these cars back to life is one thing but bringing them to the performance levels they were delivered from the factory with is quite another level of involvement.
Here's to those that go the full monty and enjoy the process!
Enjoy!
You make quite a few good points. Many 928's are being passed along to heirs and coming on to the market after varying periods and conditions of slumber.
At best are immediate sales to friends of the owner who are 928 enthusiasts who know and love the car. Recently I acquired Snow White, she was owned by a fastidious owner who never neglected the car in any way during his life. But when his daughter inherited the car in 2014, she barely drove it and the gas was starting to get that funky smell and she went four years on the same coolant (oil changed once). I commend her for not letting the car go completely fallow and letting go of "attachment without enthusiasm".
Bringing these cars back to life is one thing but bringing them to the performance levels they were delivered from the factory with is quite another level of involvement.
Here's to those that go the full monty and enjoy the process!
Enjoy!
It's usually rewarding in the end, but more and more common as the greatest GA generation fades.
10-28-2018, 12:03 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
But about feeling screwed...a lot of "I feel screwed" is preventable with a quality pre purchase inspection...if someone says it runs great..did it run great for you? Most people dont know how to do more than add gas..so runs great, is relative only to a proper vehicle inspection on the buyers time and dime.