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Yes, I get SCM too, and that guide pisses me off to no end. Even the reporters in the magazine itself talk about how the 928 is really catching on and rising in value, whenever they show one from the auction reviews. A D rating year in and year out is nonsense. Those guys should be smarter than that
Yes, I get SCM too, and that guide pisses me off to no end. Even the reporters in the magazine itself talk about how the 928 is really catching on and rising in value, whenever they show one from the auction reviews. A D rating year in and year out is nonsense. Those guys should be smarter than that
I thought the SCM pricing was pretty good. You think it’s too low?
I think it is too low. Further, classifying the 928 as a "D" grade investment is nonsense. The SCM Price Guide description of D grade is "Cars that had potential to be interesting but failed to be successful in the collector car marketplace, often due to design, engineering or styling flaw." Utter nonsense. Let's break it down - engineering? It's a Porsche with world class engineering baked in. Exceptional engineering went into these cars, and we see that when we work on them, especially compared to other cars we work on. Design? Come on man, the design is timeless. Even by today's standards, the 928 holds up exceptionally well; compared to a Testarossa, Countach, or so many other of the exotic and supercars cars of that vintage. Lastly, style - for God's sake, it won the European Car of the Year in its introduction. No other sports car has won it before or since. A "D" investment grade for a 928 is just plain ignorant. And I respect the folks at SCM a great deal. Then the pricing - it is at least 12 months behind the curve. Look at Droo's thread #5 here for a recent showing of BaT values: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...le-928-a.html; and that's just BaT. Ask Michael Willhoit if these are realistic values for 1 and 2 condition cars. I know the Pricing Guide shows median values. Maybe as average values they are not too far off. But median is the middle, and I think these medains are too low. Anyhow, my $.02 and probably not worth more than that
The good news to me is that the early cars are surprising the market prognosticators. I always thought the original body style should rebound and be worth more to collectors that want the purist form...the original design. Magnus may have helped light the fire for the early cars. I actually prefer the original body style, but prefer the reliability. power, and electrical improvements of the later cars. I wish I kept my first 928 - an 86.5. I think at some point the number of people who want a 928, and can afford a good one, is going to finally illuminate a significant fact - 928s are less common than 911s. Finding what they want (a very nice example) will prove difficult. This is something that hasn't pushed the 928 market so far, but it will when appetite exceeds supply. Imagine a future when demand and prices increase to a point that a high quality paint job or interior restoration is easily justified.
The good news to me is that the early cars are surprising the market prognosticators. I always thought the original body style should rebound and be worth more to collectors that want the purist form...the original design. Magnus may have helped light the fire for the early cars. I actually prefer the original body style, but prefer the reliability. power, and electrical improvements of the later cars. I wish I kept my first 928 - an 86.5. I think at some point the number of people who want a 928, and can afford a good one, is going to finally illuminate a significant fact - 928s are less common than 911s. Finding what they want (a very nice example) will prove difficult. This is something that hasn't pushed the 928 market so far, but it will when appetite exceeds supply. Imagine a future when demand and prices increase to a point that a high quality paint job or interior restoration is easily justified.
I think we're not too far off from that now! $40-60k for an extraordinarily clean car might make it worthwhile to spend $8k on paint & $10k on a complete interior. But maybe I'm wrong on my prices.
The other thing I noticed was that the guide lumped '78-82 together. Nothing against my brothers with '80s cars, but I think there's a very distinct difference in desirability & price between '78-79 and '80s. Most of the later cars had automatics, sunroofs, spoilers, flat rims, and all leather interior, which isn't the case with the '70s cars. I think all things being equal, '70s cars will be worth more than early '80s cars. Of course, there are always exceptions.
And then they put '83-'86 together. We all know a late '86 is a premium car & much more sought after than an '83. It's almost not honest to put them in the same group!
Just more proof that the "experts" know very little about these cars.
The article says "78-80", when the differences between the "OB" (78/79) cars and the later (80+) is huge.
Plus they show a pic of a GTS.
Honest question (I don't read these publications):
How good have their predictions been in the past?
Did they see the huge spike in aircooled 911s coming? The big spike in Ferraris?
Did they make predictions that fell through?
For 928s, the early and later (GT & GTS mainly) have already seen some nice gains. "Predicting" this is kind of silly.
There's also the "40 year" issue. Any car will often see some decent price gains as it ages. Just because there are a lot fewer out there after that time.
This information is bad, and sad if someone uses it to buy. May cause more people to over pay for an 80 thinking it is in the same market as a 78/79.
Here is what Hagerty has on its website for my 80.
Last edited by Mikebte; 02-02-2018 at 08:08 PM.
Reason: image to large
1) Actual data - like BaT auction results, with expert interpretations about what was sold, and treatment of outliers.
2) The price necessary to entice you to sell your own car - we know this well. Is our "must sell" price important, if it came to that? Maybe.
3) Prognostications - as owners, our guesses are better than most. But I have no idea - I can't predict what I'll do myself in this market, never mind strangers.
As an owner of 996 turbo and 928, it has not escaped me that the current 996 song is being sang to the tune of the original decades-old 928 song, as quoted from hagerty, (parenthesis mine)
"The 996 (928) story is usually dominated by the loud-mouthed, opinionated and under-informed who dump on the car’s headlights and intermediate shaft bearing (expensive maintenance) issues.
Key word: under-informed. Both of these cars are awesome in very different ways, and both have beautiful and creative headlights;
Just more proof that the "experts" know very little about these cars.
The article says "78-80", when the differences between the "OB" (78/79) cars and the later (80+) is huge.
Plus they show a pic of a GTS.
Honest question (I don't read these publications):
How good have their predictions been in the past?
Did they see the huge spike in aircooled 911s coming? The big spike in Ferraris?
Did they make predictions that fell through?
For 928s, the early and later (GT & GTS mainly) have already seen some nice gains. "Predicting" this is kind of silly.
There's also the "40 year" issue. Any car will often see some decent price gains as it ages. Just because there are a lot fewer out there after that time.
"Predicting", as told by the "experts" is usually closer to a reactionary tale, as printed. In short, they don't have a clue, and report on the "news" of a boat they missed.
02-01-2018, 06:41 AM
HAGERTY - Water cooled Porsches to buy now
