polecat702

Thanks for the encouragement Don, it's only time and money.

dr bob

Hi Joe --

Since it's "only time & money", drop your MAf in the package to Louis Ott with the controller. If it's original too, you can save a little on postage and get it done now and be done with it. He'll test it and let you know if it's still "in range" or not, and you can make the decision then.

jpitman2

Just been through a similar but reversed problem with a Miata. Would fire briefly, cold, and die in 2-3 secs of rough running. After eliminating fuel supply, kept trying, as long as the battery held up. The more I got it to fire, longer it would run. MMMMM. Coolant temp sensor - failed, indicating its hot, no cold start enrichment? Sensor is under the rear mounted cool pack, PITA. With the sensor disconnected (ie open circuit), coil reconnected, fired up runs fine. New sensor reads 2k cold, old one 2.7k - must be out of range.
In this case the symptoms would fit the sensor failed as if coolant is cold (low resistance) - as soon as it warms up it goes rich as and chokes to death. Try disconnecting the sensor, and if it still dies, put a resistance of ~200-300 Ohms across it - IIRC thats the hot reading value.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k

dr bob

Joe, just for fun...

-- What did you work on last on the car?

-- When did you last put fuel in the car?

My car offered exactly the same symptoms when the fuel pump relay was giving up. You say that the critical relays (fuel pump, LH/injection, EZK) have been replaced. The symptoms are the same when fuel pump(s) go south, particularly that in-tank pump or its strainer gets blocked. You can test for low fuel delivery pressure with a fuel pressure gauge if you have one. There have been a few threads about them recently, including one that discusses using some Harbor Freight kits.

Like a broken record or trying to throw away an old boomerang, I keep coming back to the reminder that the fuel pump, injectors, and cooling fans each have a dedicated power feed that connects at the battery positive post. The connections there must be clean and shiny, and must be tight. A weak connection there presents the same as a failing relay or failing fuel pump(s) or even a failing LH controller related to fuel pump function. Cleaning these connections is part of your [what should be] annual electrical maintenance protocol, but sometimes these things get away from us.

polecat702

Bob,

The internal pump, and the external pump, are brand new. New ground cable on the battery, and it's also new, as is the alternator. Cleaned all the cables, and connections. New temp II , CPS, Hall Sensor, Fuel pressure regulator, and the front damper, my car is supercharged and doesn't use the rear damper.

The LH, has never been touched, as far as I know. It's time. Replaced the relays with new one's from Roger.

I put gas in it Saturday.

My car does sit a lot, because of my work schedule. So do my other cars, Dee, never drives any of the collector cars except my 56 Chevy convertible. She learned how to drive in it.

dr bob

Was that before or after the adventure started? If just before, the arrow of blame might point towards the fuel you put in.


Rebuilding the LH is needed now or will be soon, so Just Do It. I'm just not sure that the symptoms line up well with LH failure symptoms I know.

My car sees the same "I drive too many rental cars for business travel" as yours does, plus mine now gets to hibernate from late November through April. So far, keeping stabilized fuel in it and a battery maintainer on it has been good enough. LH is renewed, MAF is due, I have the new fuel pumps but need a few pieces to install them -- plan on picking up some inner-pump hose and clamps from Greg in a couple weeks at Sharktoberfest unless I get extra-ambitious in the next week and just have the stuff shipped.

polecat702

I stopped at the ARCO, in the morning, and filled it up, before I went to C&C, then over to the Leatherneck, met with my painter for a price to paint it, sat for a couple of hours and then off to the house. The trip back to the shack, is when it started it's latest problems.

I'm going to send the stuff off to Louis, as a preventive measure. Everyone agrees that the LH, will fail, so why fool around. Get it outta the way. That's a $1000.00 bucks for it and the MAF, that I could spend on something else, like the top end refresh.

polecat702

An up date. Drove the car to the club, Friday night, and it ran great. Sat for about 5 hrs, fired it up and ran it back to the house, about 5 miles from home it started doing the same thing, Quit as I got off the fwy, coasted into a gas station, and let it sit, after about 10 minutes it started went to pull out of the station, and it died, it restarted and drove it to the house, it died in the driveway, got out opened the gates, got in and it started, got it in the garage. Round trip, about 38 miles.

I've replaced with all new internal fuel pump, external pump, ck valve, metal line, filter. New Hall and CPS sensors, Rebuilt LH, temp II, MAF, fuel pressure reg, and the front damper. My car is supercharged, and doesn't use the rear damper.

Replaced all the important relays, fuel pulp, EZK, LH, new fuses. Cleaned the grounds, all of them. New battery, alternator, ground strap. Just about everything that's listed as a problem item. Cleaned the main positive battery cable and the other cable ends.

I'm ready to take a match to it. WTF! I'm at my wits end, and I'm lost when it comes to electrical problems, unless it's obvious, like something I can see.

I need some more ideas! BTW, the harness plugs looked new when I had the LH, out for a rebuild, there was some of the cloth tape peeling off, but that's it. I Deoxit all the blades, and sockets, and they went back together easy.

I know I'm overlooking something, but don't know what it could be. Sean, has a new wiring harness waiting for me, and he'll put it in this month. I just have to get the car there.


Any ideas, or a book of matches, would be appreciated! 89, S4.

Thanks
joe

Mrmerlin

go back to the new relays,
replace them one at a time after the engine fails to run.
the one that makes the engine run is the culprit.
NOTE also include a new relay for the X bus
the LH,
the EZK,
and the fuel pump.

Verify the battery connections are all tight on both ends of each terminal and ground strap.
also verify the grounds are tight at the back of the V spray them with D100.

If none of the relays fix it,
then add a extra battery jumper cable to the shock tower nut to the ground terminal leave the original ground in place and try it.

Leon Speed

Adding to the list of possibillities: connections and cables at the hot post. Wiring harnass could be suspect. How are the coils, coil cables and grounds? End stage? Ignition cylinder?

dr bob

Joe --

-- Do you have good fuel pressure, gauge connected to the rail, FP relay jumpered 30->87? This takes care of a lot of individual component tests, filtering things down to "is the engine getting fuel?" If pressure isn't good, we can go into more detailed system component testing. If it's OK then a lot of things won't need to be detail tested.

-- Timing light on a coil wire will tell if you have spark. Individual component testing can follow if the spark isn't consistent. With your history of driving until it's warm and then losing power, you might need to carry the light with you to test on the side of the road somewhere, or letting the car sit and run in the driveway until it stops.

One of these things will tell you where to focus your attention.

soontobered84

Joe,

Just to add to what Stan posted: New relays can be bad right out of the box. If you've got one that is getting hot, it could be failing at that point.

polecat702

I pulled the CE panel, per Stan's recommendation and it looks new in back, no pinched or burned wires, or any that looked like they got hot. Pulled all the fuses, and relays, cleaned the sockets with contact cleaner a fine emory cloth and Deoxit. Letting the cleaners evaporate.

I don't think I got 5 bad "New" relays outta the box. Who knows? I bought 2 from Roger and 3 from Mark Anderson. I think the odds on all of them being bad is very remote. They all get warm, but not hot.

polecat702

Where can I get a fuel pressure test gauge that'll work on our cars. Every thing I seen, says they won't work on a Bosch LH Jetronic system. Auto Zone has them , but a $150.00 is a little steep IMO, for a one time use. I can afford it, but that's expensive.

Stan gave me a list of things to do, and I'm working thru that list.

I let the car sit over night, and it started right up. Ran great for about 30 minutes, then started acting up, like no gas.

I'm gonna let it run in the driveway till it dies again, and check the fuel pumps, for power, grounds, etc.

Are the 30 & 87 positions marked on the CE panel? I don't want to fry any thing.

worf928

Joe, did you get a chance to do the 'wire wiggle' test I describe a couple of posts back?