just got first 928 w/problems
11-28-2003, 04:07 AM
#1
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just got first 928 w/problems
hello i just picked up a 1980 928 from aperson who let it sit for 2 years this is my first 928 . i sold my love a 1975 911s targa aniversary .ok now for some questions i got it running not well drained the tank of bad gas .now it starts for a sec and dies it is like running out of gas also all gauges dont operate. they max out it has a 85 mph speedo in a box that says 8476 and a 170 speedo that is in car that reads 041469 ? the body is very nice i am only missing the rear cargo carpet and sugestions would be nice . i am replacing fuel filter on friday. then what is the best way to check the fuel regulators and damper.
11-28-2003, 08:13 AM
#2
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Welcome to the clan!
Be sure to read the post at the top re: new owners.
Also, future reading for you about info/help...
'http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm'
Probably the most collective list of 928 info in the world.
Be sure to read the post at the top re: new owners.
Also, future reading for you about info/help...
'http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm'
Probably the most collective list of 928 info in the world.
11-28-2003, 11:00 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Welcome to the 928 Forum...you'll love these folks here...quite a wealth of knowledge and good cheer to be found here on a daily basis. Well worth the price of admission. So, you sold your '75 911S Anniversary for an 80 928? Were you unhappy with the 911 or were just ready for a change in the 928? Did you consider keeping both? Prior to purchasing my 89 s4, I was strongly considering a restored 75 911s like yours. It was lovely however I was very concerned about the problematic engines from this era. Is that more myth than reality...that the 2.8L flat-six tends to pull head studs, etc.
TUK
TUK
11-28-2003, 01:18 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
What Would Wally Do?
Mochamedic: Welcome. I would search here under "ground" or ignition and electrical problems and look for a post from Wally Plumley that describes the 17 or so places on the 928 to look for bad grounds. There are 5 major places where the system grounds to the chassis, and others in the list that affect ignition. Don't know if that is the problem, but that would be a place to start. He is an excellent source here and if he picks up he will probably ask you for more specifics as to what your baby does when cranking.
http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm is another indispensible source that should be saved. HTH
http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm is another indispensible source that should be saved. HTH
11-28-2003, 02:13 PM
#5
Welcome to the interesting world of the 928.
First thing I would do is call the last owner, offer him a free lunch and $25,00 to sit down and talk about the reason(s) he/she let a sHARk sit for two years. Let the prior owner know that it is your car now and you aren't going to beat him up but desperately want to know what led up to the sHARk being parked for so long.
1. Pull the battery, trickle charge it, clean the battery cable leads, including the attachment point for the cable ground -behind the tool kit. Also the jump point and connectors up front, see archives or Nichols site.
2. Clean the ground under pass side of car -chassis ground- it's a twisted braid type -should replace it- and you might want to use a flashlight to find it due to surface corrosion which is a great camouflage. Basically rear of engine to chassis, I think it's about 10 or so inches long.
3.Check and clean the coil ground and associated leads. Look at every connector you can find/reach and clean and wiggle. Make sure they make contact, and be aware that all of those connectors are very brittle, some will crumble. Not to worry just make sure the wires are isolated from each other. Check leads and Vac line to distributor.
There should be flicks of the 'mystery green wire in the archives -assiciated with non-start, engine quitting problems.
4. Vacuum lines:
Start in the engine bay and trace what you can -for now- to connectors make sure they are snug, if brittle/cracked replace them.
Be very careful of the ones going under the intake manifold -don't pull on them- as they are a bear to get back on with out pulling the manifold.
5. Pull the cover off the air cleaner, secured by rubber straps. The left and right Air feeder tubes should pull out as you lift the cover, if not, no sweat they basically press on like a leaf blower extension. Now pull the air filter.
You should now see the bottom of the air cleaner box. Loosen the two 8 or 10mm retaining bolts. They have keepers on the bottom side so you can't pull em' thru. On the passanger side, outside corner there is a braided 5/8" breather hose that should pull off and forward of the lower air cleaner box there is a flat connector going into that aluminum thinggy -the AFM, air flow meter- pull the connector. You need to lift the lower box a little and slightly to the rear so you can get your hand on the connector. Now lift the lower air filter box a little more and wiggle backwards. The AFM which slides into a rubber boot(?) should come out -still attatched to the lower air box.
Stuff a clean old sweatsock into the manifold "hole". You need to disconnect the lower air box from AFM , 4 or 6 screws/bolts. Clean the AFM with some carb cleaner, old socks, tooth brush, and canned air. Clean everything but steer clear of the connector, don't forget to clean the tunnel and air gate-flapper- , lube with a light coat of WD-40 or the like.
You want a good, smooth -no drag or grit sound/feel at the gate and a free return. If there was a film or small puddle of oil in the AFM throat fear not as this is a common thing.
6. The reason I had you pull the airbox/AFM was not to clean although it,
NO DOUBT, needed it was so you could get at the rear spark plugs, go ahead and thank me now for the heads up.
Those spark plug boots are murder to pull up , just twist back and forth in the 'hole' a few times then wiggle up. Might take some effort.
While you are in the area look for fuel rail leaks and other connectors to wiggle/clean. Wiggle the fuel injector connectors but be gentle as they are 23 years old and might be brittle...real brittle. Get a set of Bosche Platinum plugs, double electrode should do the trick, some use the four electrode types, I don't see the difference other than possible precise indexing and price ... they both work well, your call.
Easy, wasn't it .... In about 1-3 hours you went further than you thought you could.
You will probably have some gummed up injectors, check archives for inexpensive rebuilds/calibration if the following doesn't work.
If you DO have an external fuel pump, look for a three screw cover passanger side rear by tank. Check for sound of pump activating -have someone turn the key to 1st position -don't start the car-. Should hear it buzzing for a few seconds. If it doesn't buzz get a multimeter and check for power to the pump- pull the cover to access leads-. If power is available ... a new pump is needed. If it is working, the one way valve -a commom check valve (ball bearing in a cupped seat) might be gummed up which relieves pressure to the fuel rail supply accumulator, regulator, distributor ... what have you, lets fuel drain back to tank.
Usually, if the pump is healthy but has a stuck check valve, it supplies enough fuel to keep on trucking but if you shut it down you have difficulty restarting ...stop for lunch, run into the post office etc... as it leaks back to tank without pump running.
If you get her running I would recommend several tanks of fuel with a good fuel system cleaner added. After you do the plugs go ahead and spray the throttle linkage area with carbcleaner. place some rags to soak up excess...you'll get the Idea one you get on a roll.
I'm sure we will hear from you on electrical issues in the future...
No matter what, when you get your sHARk running properly you won't be disappointed even if you are suffering from the 4.5L "lack of power" -she'll still haul ***- and you will no doubt end up with tired cheeks from smiling like an idiot when driving.
P.S.
If you do the above wether or not she runs you just saved about a grand in Porshe labor... keep it up!
First thing I would do is call the last owner, offer him a free lunch and $25,00 to sit down and talk about the reason(s) he/she let a sHARk sit for two years. Let the prior owner know that it is your car now and you aren't going to beat him up but desperately want to know what led up to the sHARk being parked for so long.
1. Pull the battery, trickle charge it, clean the battery cable leads, including the attachment point for the cable ground -behind the tool kit. Also the jump point and connectors up front, see archives or Nichols site.
2. Clean the ground under pass side of car -chassis ground- it's a twisted braid type -should replace it- and you might want to use a flashlight to find it due to surface corrosion which is a great camouflage. Basically rear of engine to chassis, I think it's about 10 or so inches long.
3.Check and clean the coil ground and associated leads. Look at every connector you can find/reach and clean and wiggle. Make sure they make contact, and be aware that all of those connectors are very brittle, some will crumble. Not to worry just make sure the wires are isolated from each other. Check leads and Vac line to distributor.
There should be flicks of the 'mystery green wire in the archives -assiciated with non-start, engine quitting problems.
4. Vacuum lines:
Start in the engine bay and trace what you can -for now- to connectors make sure they are snug, if brittle/cracked replace them.
Be very careful of the ones going under the intake manifold -don't pull on them- as they are a bear to get back on with out pulling the manifold.
5. Pull the cover off the air cleaner, secured by rubber straps. The left and right Air feeder tubes should pull out as you lift the cover, if not, no sweat they basically press on like a leaf blower extension. Now pull the air filter.
You should now see the bottom of the air cleaner box. Loosen the two 8 or 10mm retaining bolts. They have keepers on the bottom side so you can't pull em' thru. On the passanger side, outside corner there is a braided 5/8" breather hose that should pull off and forward of the lower air cleaner box there is a flat connector going into that aluminum thinggy -the AFM, air flow meter- pull the connector. You need to lift the lower box a little and slightly to the rear so you can get your hand on the connector. Now lift the lower air filter box a little more and wiggle backwards. The AFM which slides into a rubber boot(?) should come out -still attatched to the lower air box.
Stuff a clean old sweatsock into the manifold "hole". You need to disconnect the lower air box from AFM , 4 or 6 screws/bolts. Clean the AFM with some carb cleaner, old socks, tooth brush, and canned air. Clean everything but steer clear of the connector, don't forget to clean the tunnel and air gate-flapper- , lube with a light coat of WD-40 or the like.
You want a good, smooth -no drag or grit sound/feel at the gate and a free return. If there was a film or small puddle of oil in the AFM throat fear not as this is a common thing.
6. The reason I had you pull the airbox/AFM was not to clean although it,
NO DOUBT, needed it was so you could get at the rear spark plugs, go ahead and thank me now for the heads up.
Those spark plug boots are murder to pull up , just twist back and forth in the 'hole' a few times then wiggle up. Might take some effort.
While you are in the area look for fuel rail leaks and other connectors to wiggle/clean. Wiggle the fuel injector connectors but be gentle as they are 23 years old and might be brittle...real brittle. Get a set of Bosche Platinum plugs, double electrode should do the trick, some use the four electrode types, I don't see the difference other than possible precise indexing and price ... they both work well, your call.
Easy, wasn't it .... In about 1-3 hours you went further than you thought you could.
You will probably have some gummed up injectors, check archives for inexpensive rebuilds/calibration if the following doesn't work.
If you DO have an external fuel pump, look for a three screw cover passanger side rear by tank. Check for sound of pump activating -have someone turn the key to 1st position -don't start the car-. Should hear it buzzing for a few seconds. If it doesn't buzz get a multimeter and check for power to the pump- pull the cover to access leads-. If power is available ... a new pump is needed. If it is working, the one way valve -a commom check valve (ball bearing in a cupped seat) might be gummed up which relieves pressure to the fuel rail supply accumulator, regulator, distributor ... what have you, lets fuel drain back to tank.
Usually, if the pump is healthy but has a stuck check valve, it supplies enough fuel to keep on trucking but if you shut it down you have difficulty restarting ...stop for lunch, run into the post office etc... as it leaks back to tank without pump running.
If you get her running I would recommend several tanks of fuel with a good fuel system cleaner added. After you do the plugs go ahead and spray the throttle linkage area with carbcleaner. place some rags to soak up excess...you'll get the Idea one you get on a roll.
I'm sure we will hear from you on electrical issues in the future...
No matter what, when you get your sHARk running properly you won't be disappointed even if you are suffering from the 4.5L "lack of power" -she'll still haul ***- and you will no doubt end up with tired cheeks from smiling like an idiot when driving.
P.S.
If you do the above wether or not she runs you just saved about a grand in Porshe labor... keep it up!
11-28-2003, 09:55 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
thanks and keep it rolling
thanks for info did not get a chance to work on her today . had a jeep tune up and brakes to do for a customer then a guy just had to get a cv axel changed now so did that. hope to get to her tomarrow the reaso i sold the 911 is so i could build a mocha truck for my wife this is the car i almost bought 4 years ago but opted for the 911 then the owner died and she sat the wife sold it to me monday.for less than before but now i am going to get her going again it is my understanding it has 49000 mile actual miles the undercariage is mint the body is nice next is going to be change fuel filter and check the oil leak from passenger side top belt cover and look for bad grounds after i get the running problem. any advice welcome
11-29-2003, 11:40 AM
#7
Since your gas was bad, the fuel filter is most probably plugged/lacquered. Also, the inlet line to the fuel distributor has a screen which could be plugged. Other areas that could cause the start/run/die symptoms are bad connections at the ignition resistors (on panel in front of drivers side wheel well), corroded fuel pump fuse and bad/corroded fuel pump relay. In addition to checking your grounds and vacuum lines as John suggested you will probably need to give your fuse/relay panel a good cleaning (front and back).
Dennis
Dennis