Way to dispell the notion that Porsche owners are ********, guys! Someone asks for some info, and it turns into a pissing match between a premium level sports car and an entry level sports car.

Also, Dave, for your information, the SR20DET is not a bad engine, and is capable of every bit as much performance as the 951 motor. It may be 500ccs smaller, but it's DOHC, is still currently being produced, and has a massive aftermarket following. 600hp SR20DETs are not uncommon.

Furthermore, the 240SX has a much better rear suspension setup than our cars do. Say what you will, but the 240SX has BMW derrived multilink rear suspension, whereas our cars have a trailing arm design that dates back to the Beetle.

240SX/Silvias have good weight distribution, and weigh in a little less than a 944 does. They are strong performers, and one hell of a bargain when you consider how much they cost.

If an SR20 swap costs you $5K when you do all the work yourself, you're getting ripped off. I can find half a dozen places that will have you the motor, transmission, and all accessories for less than $2000 shipped. It is a bolt in swap, it can be done by anyone who has ever pulled a motor before, over a weekend with simple hand tools. Upgrades such as limited slip differentials are available cheaply, in all sorts of gear ratios. Fiberglass and carbon fiber bodywork is available to drop weight, and there are countless chassis upgrades to be had.

Don't rag on a car just because it's Japanese, they make some fine sports cars. Just because it isn't a 951 doesn't mean it's not a good car.

 

Not to perpetuate the pissing, but Dave wasn't trashing his car for being Japanese, he was trashing the concept of buying a economy car and throwing a ****load of money at it in an attempt to make it worth bragging about when you could easily spend that same amount of money to buy a car, Japanese, German, whatever, that is worth bragging about right out of the box.

Plus the fact that this is a Porsche forum.

 

A 240SX is not an economy car, it's a sports car. An entry level sports car, but still a sports car.

I was stating the techincal superiority of certain aspects of the Nissan, such as better rear suspension, and a DOHC cylinder head, when compared to the 951. There are a variety of cheap turbocharged engines available from Japan, that with fuel and turbo upgrades will make around 400hp.

With a little money into the suspension, some springs, shocks, bushings and camber plates and the 240SX can really show up most high end sports cars on a tight road course or autoX.

It's much cheaper to build up a 240SX than it is to build up a 944, you can buy the car for $3000, an engine swap for $2000, $2000 into the engine and you're making 350hp, another $2000 into the suspension and you're running some fast lap times. All this for about the purchase price of a stock 951.

 

Well, we had the arguement on the 924/44/51/68 forum a while back and I think it was pretty well hammered out that cars like the 240SX and Honda Civic coupe and the like are not sports cars. Maybe sporty cars, but not sports cars. Technically, by definition the 924/44 series doesn't really qualify as such either. And if you can find a good usable 240SX in my area for $3000 your a lucky man.

And compared to the Silvia, I would hardly call the US version (240SX) all that sporty.

 

The 240SX should in no way be compared with the Civic. The Honda Civic is a front wheel drive economy car, built with the goals of good fuel economy and reliability, at the expense of driving pleasure.

The 240SX is a true sports car, just as the 944 is. In fact, the two are quite comparable, despite the price differences.

It weight about the same as the early 944, at around 2800lbs. It has a 5 speed, just like the 944. It has independent rear suspension, just like the 944, although the Nissan multilink setup is similar to the 993 suspension, and is arguably superior to the trailing arm design of the 944. The Nissan has the KA24DE, which is an oversquare DOHC EFI 4 cylinder displacing 2.4 liters, compared to the SOHC 2.5 liter 4 of the 944. The KA24DE makes around 150hp, IIRC. They are both RWD, with an even front/rear weight bias. Both have excellent turbocharged engines available, and excellent aftermarket support for the chassis, as well as the engine.

The biggest difference? The 944 has a badge that says Stuttgart on it, and a price tag that corresponds.

Also, I'm interested to know by what definition the 924/944 does not qualify as a sports car.

 

By definition, dictionary or otherwise, the term "sportcar" as coined in the late 1920's refers to a 1 or 2 seat automobile with "enthusiastic" driving as its primary purpose. That obviously applied to old pre-war Alfas and the like. Later, post war, it primarily applied to British two seaters, like those from MG and Triumph. To split hairs, the 924/44 would better qualify as a GT due to its 2+2 coupe configuration. And rear versus front drive has nothing to do with it as FWD was not much of a factor when the term originated. Actually, if you think about it, the Del Sol (cringe) could qualify as a sportscar.

That said, I guess you could blur it to include anything sanctioning bodies like the SCCA have a classification for.

Oh, and just to set the record straight, I would love to have a nice Silvia.

 

WHOA there, lets get some things straight about these cars and engines.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/fo...?threadid=1259

I could type it all out, but this link does a much better job. Oh, and the s14 is NA, not turbo.

The cars are very similar, my friend has a 240sx with a CA18det which is quicker than my 944, but the brakes/suspension/wheels&tires/stereo=) still give the 944 the edge, but not for long- parts are soooo numerous and cheap for those cars, and the CA18 has forged internals and absolutly no problem taking a funny amount of boost with just a new turbo and a frontmount intercooler, but then theres that little badge on mine...
Oh, and the 240sx was meant as a recreation/update of the 240z which I think secures its racing herritage. Nissan is by far my fav. jap car manufacturer

 

Cbass-

Since you insist on spending on modifications and swaps. I have seen numerous 944 variants being sold for less than $2k with broken timing belts. Being the DIY type, I could get one of those cars and a Chevy engine with a Renegade kit and have an extremely serious car for less than $8k. And at the end of the day, even with a Chevy engine, I still have a Porsche.

 

Stock for stock, a an S13 240SX will run with a 944. It might not beat it, but it will keep up at least, and that's quite respectable for a car that cost about one third of what the 944 did new, and about half of the cost of a used 944.

Throw a set of good springs and shocks into the 240SX, rebuild the engine with new cams and pistons, intake, header, etc, and you're now making around 210hp, in a car that weighs about the same as a 944, and has better suspension. All for the purchase price of a 944.

If you want to get into more expensive swaps, you can put an RB26DETT from a Skyline GTR into the S13, and make as much power as you want. There are many 600hp street driven Skylines running around Australia and Japan. It's a bolt in swap.

Flat out, the 240SX has better suspension than the 944, there is no way around this, it's a better design, better geometry, better camber curve, coil springs vs torsion bars, there is no comparison.

It has a 2.4 liter DOHC engine, with a good cylinder head, forged steel crank, good rods, but low compression pistons and mild mild cams that run out of grunt above 5000rpm. A simple rebuild with 11:1 pistons, good hardware and some nice cams will make around 210hp. Get into wilder cams, higher compression, an ITB intake manifold, and it gets even more powerful. There are bolt on turbo kits for the KA24DE motor that give you 240hp at the wheels, reliably, on pump gas. That's more power than a 951S.

Don't rag on this car, it's a very respectable performer. If it came with stiffer springs from the factory, it would be a force to be reckoned with in stock form. With a little bit of money, the 240SX really comes alive.

And that's the stock US version, a Silvia K is a whole different ballgame.

 

Bass

I think you totally miss the point here. Nearly any car can be modified, but at the end of the day in this case, it's still a Nissan 240SX. It does have ok performance and in that respect offers some value for the money spent on acquisition, but it's still a Nissan. There is no denying that Porsche carries a bit more of a motorsports heritage than most marques. At time of resale, which goes for more, a modified Porsche or Nissan? I still come back to economics, it's just not worth it IMO to make the Franken240, with low resale value, v getting a Porsche in the first place for the same money.

And since I'm on the bucks soapbox, there are quite a few guys out there that are "into" their cars and can barely change a flat, much less do timing belts nor build engines. These same "experts" whine about Porsche maintenence costs, never realizing that the labor alone on the last timing belt bill would make a great start on a good tool set.

But back to the original issue, this is a PORSCHE forum. I, or anyone else, who might have a similar non-Porsche would be willing to help with mechanical problems on non-Porsche cars owned by guys who do have Porsches, but they need to be prefaced at OT and ask for help. If you want to have a forum discussion about other cars, there are other forums.

 

Amen!

-Christian