Corky Rodriguez

Well I just took the plunge and bought a very clean '88 951. It has 17" factory Cup alloys and 235-45-17 and 265-40-17 tires. The current tires are Pirelli P7000s and the rears are about gone. The fronts have some life and at $100 a pop to replace the P7000s it's a bargain, but since the P7000s are old news, I'm looking for advice on other tires.

The car will be a sunny weekend day driver and will also hopefully see about 4 DE events in the upcoming season. I'm not committed to buying a separate set of wheels/tires just for track use. SHould I be thinking this way? Get the P7000s on the back for street use and buy some cheap phone dials and sticky 16 inch rubber for the track?

Appreciate any advice -

dave120

I would get some cheap 16s. Track tires are cheaper than street tires! And you'll go through tires fast at DE events. I've been running street tires at DEs, but I'm about to get some cheap ones for my 16s because my S-03s are too expensive to burn off that fast!

W88951

You will be substantially more happy in a DE with DOT Race tires than street tires

If you are looking for street tires and cost is the most important concern then the Khumo ECSTA 712's are your tire. Then the Yoko ES100's but my choice of great performance at a resonable price is the Bridgestone RE-750.

Another option is to use your 17's as your Track wheels and find a good set of 18's for the street. If you are looking for Turbo Phone Dials expect to spend at least $350 for a set.

Corky Rodriguez

Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning towards getting the P7000s on the back and using the 17s for street (I don't really want to run 18s on the mean streets in NYC area).

Can I get a set of 4 16x8 phone dials for $350? Then what DOT race tires do I get and what size? 225s front 245s rear

Mike Buck

I'd recommend the Toyo Proxes T1-S. Not dirt cheap, but also not super expensive. Mine have held up amazingly well for the abuse I've put them through. I was able to push mine very hard on track w/o chunking for the first 6 DE events I did this year(before switching to R compounds). Frankly, the grip amazing well for what were full tread depth tires, surprised most/all of my instructors. The only wear mine show is limited to the inside edges of the front tires, probably due to running a lot of camber on the street.

I can see investing in DOT tires if you have an extra set of stock wheels sitting around, but buying another set + tires is a bit much for a weekend driver.

How old are those P7000's on your fronts? Nothing will get torn up faster in a DE than old, hard, street tires.

ed devinney

For your first events you'll want to stick with street tires anyway. I have had Michelin Pilot Sports on those wheels on my 951, and they're good. The Yoko ES100s I have now are not quite as good as the michelins, but quite satisfactory and about 1/2 the price. Don't know how they'd be on track - I tracked the michelins but not the yokos.

I've seen the T1S used on a street/track BMW, and they appear to perform and hold up well.

Now I run Toyo RA-1s on the stock 951S wheels at the track, but as these sorts of tires will cover for a multitude of driver error, strongly recommend street tires if you're just starting at DE.

ErichCS

Corky: The factory size for 951 phone dials was 16x7 front and 16x8 rear. I believe those were the biggest phone dials made. I just paid 300 including shipping for a set that need some work but included tires...Also i dont do any DE/track stuff but the price of good 17'' tires is one reason im getting rid of mine and going to 16'' for my 924S....
Goodluck!
Erich

User 41221

Ed's right. Street tires have a lot more warning when they are going to lose traction, whereas track rubber will allow you to get into trouble a lot faster. After you have done a few track events, thats when you should be looking at track tires. I think a better first purchases would be 1) decent driving gloves, especially if you tend to sweat a lot (lol), 2) a harness bar and harnesses as they will help hold you in place better.

Regards,

OriginalSterm

I have the Kumho 712's on my car right now. After 1 DE at Watkins Glen, I will never buy these tires again. Way to hard in the dry, not that good (despite the tread pattern) in the wet. Probably aren't a bad tire to learn on because they are cheap and really let you know when you are reaching the edge (loud squeeling!).

All of the instructors recommend street tires for DE until you learn your car and can push it to the limit of the tire, then move to R-compound.

Corky Rodriguez

Guys this is great advice. I will look into Toyo Proxes T1-S I had the Kumos on my '89 Carrera and frankly was not impressed. They did not stick that well even for aggressive street driving in warm dry weather. While there are a lot of Kumo fans out there, I'm not among them. I also believe everything you say about the street tires being a better starting point. When I took the Barber intro to racing class in Formula Dodges they also ran street tires on that purpose built race car for the same reason. Help the newbie keep it rightside up. My car already has a custom welded rollbar with a harness crossbar and harness hooks in place.

I'll probably keep an eye out on used 16 wheels, maybe try to get two sets of 2 16x8 as they are available and think about race tires after I log some time.

Randy_J

very pleased with the 225 / 255 x 17" Yoko AVS on my 951S in a few DE's - ES100 on my 968 are almost as good tho at 1/2 the price. That set cost about $450 installed from Discount Tire / Tire Rack.

Watch out for 18" rims though - not adviseable on our cars - stress on the caster blocks and even control arms. Search the posts on Rennlist for more info. 17" are OK, but watch the caster blocks or upgrade to the later 968 style that are beefier.

Oddjob

>"Can I get a set of 4 16x8 phone dials for $350? Then what DOT race tires do I get and what size? 225s front 245s rear"

I would think that $350 might be a little on the cheap end for 4 straight 8x16 PD wheels that are not a cosmetic disaster. But if youre patient, you may be able to find some at that price.

Run 245/45s all the way around. Then you benefit by being able to rotate the whls to any corner of the car, and get the most wear out of the tires. If youre running directional street tires, you cant do that, but with track rubber, you can cross, front to back, side to to side, etc.

Corky Rodriguez

That's my thought, with 245s all around I can stretch their life on the track a little longer.

As I study tires, the Bridgestone S03 is the big standout as well as the Michelin Pilot Sport, but those cost an arm and a leg. THe Goodyear Eagle F1 Gs-D3 seem to be highly regarded and are definitely less expensive. Does anybody have experience with the Goodyears?

mdex

I am running the Goodyears as my street tires... they aren't bad on the track in the dry... I find that they get a little greasy when they are hot... but as a wet track tire / street tire they are fantastic!

I would recomend them as a great tire to drive on the street and use while learning on the track... "R" compounds aren't really the best while you are learning the car.

Depending on your driving experience, 245's all the way around might not be the optimum set up for you... it can make the car a little more prone to oversteer.

Z-man

Yes. But to that point, you might as well get the best high-performance street tire available. (You'll find varying opinion on what the best high performance street tire is.)

-Z.