Matt H

I really dont remember, I got rid of that car about 4 years ago. On the 951 I am going to 600 ff and 300 rr. Getting rid of the T-bars all together. We will see how it holds up.
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Fishey

I know this is not "Cheap" but I was just wondering about the Kokeln Rear suspention what does everyone think of it?

tifosiman

Matt,

Is your car a street, double-duty, or track-only car? I'm asking to get a better idea if my ideas on springrates for my 90% autocross 10%street car are realistic or whimpy....

And, from all that I have read, not personal knowlege as I certainly have never had spring rates that high on my 944, that sounds like it will still have some tendency to understeer. It seems like you would want to bump the rear spring rate up, especially since you are deleting the rear torsion bars all together.

Maybe some one like Skip or Scott will chime in, or some other suspension guru...

Just thinking out loud right now more than anything,

Tifo

keith

yeah Matt - that rear rate sounds mighty soft to me.

What is that, about 170# in the rear? That's less than a set of 25.5mm M030 T-bars....

keith

= or did you mean 300 front (~#270) and 600 rear (~#336)?

Matt H

No I mean 600lbs in the front and 300lbs in the rear.

Tifo- I drove the other car with the 400lbs for 2 years and never had a problem. It was harsh but this is a sports car. I have ridden in ones with 600 and it was not that bad. Some of the race guys are at or over 1000lbs on the front. Car is destined to be probably 75/25 street track. I dont do autocross but do plan some DE's etc. If someone had a definite answer to what rates to run that would be great. Although a little understeer is usually what people want I prefer a little oversteer, as I find I am faster that way (just off a little more often :>))
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joseph mitro

I installed the KLA coilovers last week (9" 140 pounds). I had the eccentric adjusted by Tom Charlesworth and the car rides great. I am having a dealer alignment tomorrow but already the car handles well. Just a hint of understeer and I can stiffen the rear shocks and adjust the sway bar stiffer if I want to.

I would recommend the KLA shocks to anybody that drives routinely on the street but wants something stiffer than stock and wants to autocross or occasionally do track or DE events.

Also, Scott at KLA gave me great customer service.

keith

Matt, I may be mistaken, but that setup should UNDERSTEER like a ocean-liner...!?

Oddjob

300 lb/in coil springs in the rear with T-bars removed is much too soft for 600 lb/in front springs. A 944 will understeer badly setup like that.

If youre set on the 600 in front (excessively stiff for a street/autocross/DE car), you need to be in the 600-750 range in the rear (if you have removed the torsion bars). 600 in the rear will slightly understeer, 650 will be close to neutral and 700 plus will show oversteer (all dependent on sway bars, alignments, whl/tire combo, driving style, etc).

Also, make sure what ever shock brand you choose, it is valved to handle those kind of spring rates.

keith

I think David Salama is running 550/750 and his car is pretty nuetral....

Skip

tifo, have you considered 15x7 w/225/45 or 50-15 rubber? Much better for the na cars, especially in autocross. I gave up on the 16x8's - too heavy and the tires are too tall.

matt, I think everyone is confused because you say the car has upgraded t-bars, but then say you'll ditch them for the 300# springs over the rear units matched with 600# fronts. You need a combined effective rear rate of ~480 to match the 600 fronts. Using a 300 rear you would need ~29-30mm T-bars.

Matt H

SKip - we are talking about two different cars. My old one had upgraded t bars. The new one will have no t-bars. So waht you are saying is with the 600 lb front a 480 rear with no t-bars would be fine?
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tifosiman

Hey Skip,

I would, except for the fact that I am very limited on wheel choice by the S4 calipers on the front and the 951 calipers on the rear. I have to tun 17's (which I have for the street), or 16" 951 7&8" fuchs or 16" 951 8" phonedials (allround). Everything else hits the calipers....

It is my experience that the 17" wheels are wwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaay too heavy for an N/A (I actually barely even use them on the street and am considering unloading them cheap). By comparison, the 16" Fuchs seem like feathers. My hope is that the 16x8 phonedials with v700's on them will be somewhere around the range of the fuchs, maybe *slightly* heavier (I haven't got the scale out yet..)




Tifo

keith

Yeah MAtt - only about 56% of the coil spring rate effectively acts on the wheel when used on the rear of these cars, withOUT Torsion bars...

I am going to use 325-350 up front with my 29mm bars in the rear, for a nuetral-to-slight-oversteer setup (I hope!)

Skip

Matt, as Keith stated, the rear spring is only 56% effective. To achieve a 480# rate would require an 850# spring (if used w/o torion bar). I would recommend 800#. The 480# number was derived as 80% of the front (600*80%=480). The 80% is two numbers - one is the front effective rate of 90% - the other is a 10% bias to the front which is considered ideal when using something so high as a 600# front. Yes, it's a SWAG. Honestly, unless you are racing on smooth big tracks, this setup is a bit too aggressive - IMHO.

Good Luck!