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Yes on reflection I see what you mean with it's simple cambelt layout and the IRON block which is not as vulnerable as the all aluminum Alusil Porsche blocks
One of these things is not like the others..
One of these things is from the 60's and holds the world power/displacement record, with a kkk turbocharger.. Bit over 1k HP per Liter..
Only one of these things is a "real" sports car engine, engineered to be such, and never fitted in cheap mass production grocery getters such as vans and average cars..
Of course the 44/68 have everything to be thankful for in view of the 924's pre existence. It's just a timeline. The 924 served it's purpose where the 944 took the baton and ran with it. The 968 was probably a failure in terms of profitability but you'd have to phone Germany to find out the answer to that.
It's a real shame they didn't do a twin cam version of the 2ltr 924 motor. With the iron block and a superior breathing head you could really have some fun boosting them. As it is, really all the i4 motors were pretty agricultural in comparison to other motors. Clearly Porsche didn't anticipate the 944/68 motors being developed to produce into the 800+bhp region which I know of a few at the moment. The biggest issue with the Alu motors is not just the alu itself but the massive spacing between headstuds and not being able to keep the head clamped onto the deck in these ultimate versions of this motor. The next step will be billet blocks of which I also know some in the works. (Not mine) But for a really nice street / club racer you can put together a good stroker motor from semi affordable parts as has been documented on the turbo forums. Be fun to strap a easily obtainable 400+whp motor into a 924 chassis all the same!
Of course the 44/68 have everything to be thankful for in view of the 924's pre existence. It's just a timeline. The 924 served it's purpose where the 944 took the baton and ran with it. The 968 was probably a failure in terms of profitability but you'd have to phone Germany to find out the answer to that.
It's a real shame they didn't do a twin cam version of the 2ltr 924 motor. With the iron block and a superior breathing head you could really have some fun boosting them. As it is, really all the i4 motors were pretty agricultural in comparison to other motors. Clearly Porsche didn't anticipate the 944/68 motors being developed to produce into the 800+bhp region which I know of a few at the moment. The biggest issue with the Alu motors is not just the alu itself but the massive spacing between headstuds and not being able to keep the head clamped onto the deck in these ultimate versions of this motor. The next step will be billet blocks of which I also know some in the works. (Not mine) But for a really nice street / club racer you can put together a good stroker motor from semi affordable parts as has been documented on the turbo forums. Be fun to strap a easily obtainable 400+whp motor into a 924 chassis all the same!
"The 924 served it's purpose" !!! Jeez that won't go down well with the Fan club !
Nah. there's always a variation on the same theme.....even though the post is about a prototype CGT for sale, the conversation is discussing the evolution of the 3 main models and comparing the different engines and performance.
I'm sure when the All Aluminium 928 v8 engine was designed with the revolutionary Reynolds Aluminium and the Alusil content bores Porsche had no perception one day they would decide to also make a 4cyl engine based on half a bank or even consider turbocharging either motor.
Even when they did produce a production turbo in the 44 the outputs were conservative @ 220 & 250 although the 968 Turbo S & RS went higher @ 305 / 350bhp but with an 8 valve head.
Only Hardcore street abusers and racers like yourself want extreme power and for sure such an engine design and material is not that suitable but any iron block engine can withstand so much more forced induction pressure.
I'm sure I could easily double my 205bhp and fit a turbo but I just don't fancy this for now as it's a Street car, and yes I'm sure it would create some whack in the back wheelspinning and dramatic car to drive with 400bhp, 2300lbs, the narrow track & body and 205mm tyres I have fitted on each corner. But I'd rather try a twin cam head, throttle bodies and Motec or similar and gain 50bhp than boost it for now.
I read in the 924 carerra book that Porsche were looking at fitting the 5 cylinder Audi engine and the PRV V6 but they were not happy with either of them and hence turned to the 928 engine design instead, the rest we know is history........
I have driven a lot of E30 M3s, they feel and go like the 944s2.
Out of the box the E30 has better turn in, and the 944 have better acceleration out of the corner.
Quality it’s about the same.
I have driven some Miata’s NA and NB with 400 whp ( track suspension +++ ) they are awesome.
Out of the box they are a lot of fun on twisty roads, but the lack of engine is a disappointment.
Back in the day I had a Nissan r32 skyline with 550bhp, a lot of mods in the suspension, diff, etc, in that comparison I love my 951.
Regarding the engine, if im taking the M44 out, a Volvo 5 syl 20V would be perfect.
Regarding the engine, if im taking the M44 out, a Volvo 5 syl 20V would be perfect.
The PRV (Peugeot Renault Volvo) 3 litre 90 degree V6 engine is an old girl but did power many things like the Run DMC Delorean, and also the Alfa Romeo 155Ti DTM Race car and
le mans cars from Venturi (600bhp), Peugeot and Alpine.
The PRV (Peugeot Renault Volvo) 3 litre 90 degree V6 engine is an old girl but did power many things like the Run DMC Delorean, and also the Alfa Romeo 155Ti DTM Race car and
le mans cars from Venturi (600bhp), Peugeot and Alpine.
Sorry, that is one of the most awfull engines ever made. I hate it.. Sorry.
Yes i have had a car with it...
But this baby makes 600 bhp easy.
None of the Production PRV's were never powerful or put in impressive sportscars, but my point was they can and have been the starting block (Excuse the pun!) to some Powerful Racing cars.
I've never experienced this engine myself as it was in Lardy large Volvo estate's in the Uk and they are a great workhorse but no quick handler!
I don't fancy 600 Bhp in a 944 unless it was a fully multipoint welded in and gusseted caged race car with Double wishbone suspension, large brakes and Slicks.
The most i've experienced power wise was a Lambo Engined V10 5.0 Twin turbo 570bhp Engine in an Audi RS6. Which was not nice the fat thing weighed 5200Lbs ! Tramlined on the feeway, the electronic throtle was too sensitive and severe and it handled like a three legged cow in a sandpit!
Straight line (Boring) Sure it took off with torque and whooosh but on the public highway how long does this last before either your licence is gone or you rear end a car on the freeway when you were accelerating hard from 130mph!
Not my bag, I prefer Nimble, Light, manageable torque, Communicative chassis and no Electronic aids etc...
R
I dont think i will ever build a 600 bhp 944, id rather buy a 997 or a well tuned E92 M3 with a supercharger.
Pun taken
Me and my friends do some trackdays, the fastest car is an 1993 MX5, 400 whp +. Mine is about 5 sec slower on Rudskogen.
Yep, straight line Cruiser bruisers are just that...
400whp MX5 is scary, but I bet that's fully caged on slicks and it has double wishbone suspension?
I had a japanese Domestic market version (Eunos) 1.6 Mark 1 1993
I hated it ! the engine was so gutless, sure it needs REVVING but the chassis was no 944 and eventually after changing shox and roll bars etc...when it wasn't responding I realised the convertible body was bending and flexxing
which is why it wouldn't take a set it kept moving about!
I sold it sharpish and if I ever see one out on the road now i make a point of trashing it no matter what i'm in ! Because they are over rated in my opinion!
And sadly because of the opinion by thousands that they handle brilliant! I take great pride in making sure the owner is shocked than a family hatch can over run it!
"The 924 served it's purpose" !!! Jeez that won't go down well with the Fan club !
Nah. there's always a variation on the same theme.....even though the post is about a prototype CGT for sale, the conversation is discussing the evolution of the 3 main models and comparing the different engines and performance.
I'm sure when the All Aluminium 928 v8 engine was designed with the revolutionary Reynolds Aluminium and the Alusil content bores Porsche had no perception one day they would decide to also make a 4cyl engine based on half a bank or even consider turbocharging either motor.
Even when they did produce a production turbo in the 44 the outputs were conservative @ 220 & 250 although the 968 Turbo S & RS went higher @ 305 / 350bhp but with an 8 valve head.
Only Hardcore street abusers and racers like yourself want extreme power and for sure such an engine design and material is not that suitable but any iron block engine can withstand so much more forced induction pressure.
I'm sure I could easily double my 205bhp and fit a turbo but I just don't fancy this for now as it's a Street car, and yes I'm sure it would create some whack in the back wheelspinning and dramatic car to drive with 400bhp, 2300lbs, the narrow track & body and 205mm tyres I have fitted on each corner. But I'd rather try a twin cam head, throttle bodies and Motec or similar and gain 50bhp than boost it for now.
I read in the 924 carerra book that Porsche were looking at fitting the 5 cylinder Audi engine and the PRV V6 but they were not happy with either of them and hence turned to the 928 engine design instead, the rest we know is history........
R
I have no issue with your preferred choice of transport. A nice little n/a motor with high comp and a good tune would be a lot of fun in a 924 or even 944 body. I would say that if you've experienced a well modified 944 turbo you can still have a lot of fun and really, even though modern turbo factory cars are very linear and immediate by comparison (virtually like an n/a) they're pretty boring in my opinion. Say a 944t with 350whp, improved suspension and an upgrade to the wheels and tyres...that's going to provide you with a lot of fun. They're no less nimble than an n/a counterpart and if you spend a bit more money on lightening them, you have a really great little street and club racer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xSnau43PiE That's a short clip of my car back in 2010 with about 320whp having a bit of fun with a modified EVO on a short twisty track. His 4wd and higher power rocketed him out of corners where I would catch him into corners and under brakes. Car was quick and nimble. Lighter and with quite a few suspension tweaks. But the motor was an n/a block with stock pistons/rods 8v head. Just ran a GT30 turbo back then. Good fun street/club cars can be turbocharged too.
I have no issue with your preferred choice of transport. A nice little n/a motor with high comp and a good tune would be a lot of fun in a 924 or even 944 body. I would say that if you've experienced a well modified 944 turbo you can still have a lot of fun and really, even though modern turbo factory cars are very linear and immediate by comparison (virtually like an n/a) they're pretty boring in my opinion. Say a 944t with 350whp, improved suspension and an upgrade to the wheels and tyres...that's going to provide you with a lot of fun. They're no less nimble than an n/a counterpart and if you spend a bit more money on lightening them, you have a really great little street and club racer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xSnau43PiE That's a short clip of my car back in 2010 with about 320whp having a bit of fun with a modified EVO on a short twisty track. His 4wd and higher power rocketed him out of corners where I would catch him into corners and under brakes. Car was quick and nimble. Lighter and with quite a few suspension tweaks. But the motor was an n/a block with stock pistons/rods 8v head. Just ran a GT30 turbo back then. Good fun street/club cars can be turbocharged too.
Yeah that looks a right Twisty track, and the Evo looks to be struggling with understeer and turn in also his lines are not as good as yours !
What tyres were on the car that day and how much did it weigh then approx?
My car already has changed and upgraded suspension, brakes and Wheels.
If I went 350bhp turbo Engine I'd not change a thing. They all work very well on the road / street. The LSD would get more stick but I'd just have to modulate the throttle more..
I'm virtually at the max with weight reduction, I could go Fibreglass Doors
and maybe remove the heater but not much else, I'm at 2300lbs and 200bhp per Metric tone PTW which is good enough for me on the street.
Porsche Club GB just valued the car at $40,000 ! So I really don't want to
make a mess of it and race it and risk an off!
Racing on a Track or using a car on the road and doing track days is
a total different discipline compared to how I've built it for road / street use.
It's drives so easy and effortless, doesn't have an obscene amount of twisting power but just enough to get fresh with most hot hatchbacks and hot Diesels etc.. Also I've had 10 Years of Circuit racing (Shifter Karts) best result 5th in the Uk in 1999, so as you know anyone that's done well in competition has skills far in excess compared to most road / street users, so like the Evo Driver quite a few sportscar's with more power than me cannot get away from me, or I get past them and they cannot keep up!
Yeah it was a bit of a mish mash comparo but essentially the point being that you can build a chuckable turbo too. That was a bit of an odd day actually. Went there with R spec rubber on and I was understeering all over the shop. The setup was wrong but I just dealt with it. At the end of the day I chucked on my first set of slicks and the car was transformed. So much so that it took me by surprise and in fact I could have braked later and turned in later on some corners. So my lines weren't perfect either. His lines might have also been affected by a bit of understeer and hot brakes from memory. Oh, and my car had the ring & pinion from an S2 which shortens the final drive by about 15% which seems to really liven the car up a little. Day was capped off by getting clobbered by a massive storm on the drive back. The old R specs were pretty worn and I aquaplaned left into thick wire fencing then spun backwards across 2 lanes and finished facing backwards in the grass centre strip. Tore front left guard quite badly. Luckily one of the support vehicles came upon me and saved the day with a few rolls of race tape. Not fun though. Had I spun across the path of a Big 18 wheeler I would have gone underneath it and not been here to write this! Moral...don't drive home on worn R specs!
02-02-2017, 05:26 PM
