OH NO!! Cayenne now with V6 from VW!
10-24-2003 | 01:26 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 550
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas, NV
There's an interesting article in Time this week in which they discuss the "shark" concept. When "Happy Days" was on the air, after the episode where Fonzie jumped the shark, the general perception was that the show had crossed a line it shouldn't have and things could never be the same, and it headed downhill from there. Since then, they refer to the shark phase as when a TV show crosses the line and loses the interest of its viewers.
I think this is the line many of us feel that Porsche has crossed in producing a mass-market SUV, WITH THE PORSCHE NAME ON IT, and in not racing. Sure, the Cayenne is a great product - I would expect nothing less from Porsche. But what's next in the name of the bottom line; Porsche brand refrigerators? Karaoke machines?
Porsche has their hands in a bunch of projects (Harley V-Rod, etc) in which they contribute their well-known engineering expertise, and get paid what I imagine is a more than fair compensation. I bet they would do fine in continuing to market engineering consulting, and in marketing a great low-cost PORSCHE sports car analagous to the 924/944. Look at the reaction to the Lotus Elise coming to the states - I doubt there will be dealer lots full of those... Porsche could create something similar with one hand tied behind their collective backs. Instead, they market an SUV. And quit racing. The shark is here...
I think this is the line many of us feel that Porsche has crossed in producing a mass-market SUV, WITH THE PORSCHE NAME ON IT, and in not racing. Sure, the Cayenne is a great product - I would expect nothing less from Porsche. But what's next in the name of the bottom line; Porsche brand refrigerators? Karaoke machines?
Porsche has their hands in a bunch of projects (Harley V-Rod, etc) in which they contribute their well-known engineering expertise, and get paid what I imagine is a more than fair compensation. I bet they would do fine in continuing to market engineering consulting, and in marketing a great low-cost PORSCHE sports car analagous to the 924/944. Look at the reaction to the Lotus Elise coming to the states - I doubt there will be dealer lots full of those... Porsche could create something similar with one hand tied behind their collective backs. Instead, they market an SUV. And quit racing. The shark is here...
10-24-2003 | 01:45 PM
#34
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,712
Likes: 3
Why must this argument be so philosophical? It is simple really. There is a bucketload of profit (which is what companiy's want, sales mean nothing without it, ask me about Goodyear) in producing an SUV, especially one that can compete with BMW and Mercedes. There is a FAR FAR FAR larger target market and they will sell more of them. Who cares about the Elise, Lotus will only sell a few of them (there is a very limited market, just like the CGT but for different reasons).
Sell more product, at a higher margin, to more people. This is how good businesses make money. I know we all want to see more sporty cars and preferrably with a lower price tag but it isnt going to happen. Just for reference the Z-06 was supposed to be a cheap Corvette. No sunroof, originally no radio, no power window, door locks, etc. just a big old bad *** motor in a package for enthusiasts. As you can tell it didnt work that way. They have all that garbage and cost more than a fully loaded C-5. Wanna know why? Because they wouldnt have sold enough of them to make production profitable. Apparently, people want A/C and power windows and a radio. People want SUV's so that is what they are building. May not suit you but that is free market.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Sell more product, at a higher margin, to more people. This is how good businesses make money. I know we all want to see more sporty cars and preferrably with a lower price tag but it isnt going to happen. Just for reference the Z-06 was supposed to be a cheap Corvette. No sunroof, originally no radio, no power window, door locks, etc. just a big old bad *** motor in a package for enthusiasts. As you can tell it didnt work that way. They have all that garbage and cost more than a fully loaded C-5. Wanna know why? Because they wouldnt have sold enough of them to make production profitable. Apparently, people want A/C and power windows and a radio. People want SUV's so that is what they are building. May not suit you but that is free market.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
10-24-2003 | 02:19 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 550
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas, NV
Matt,
Passion is driven by one's philosophy. And I'm passionate about Porsches.
Historically, Porsche has developed a passionate fan base - among sports car enthusiasts. It'll be interesting to see if the company can continue to do so. And if they continue to diversify their product line, with the relevant ramifications.
I have owned several SUVs, BTW. And wouldn't mind having a Cayenne. However I still hold that there were other ways to bolster the bottom line. Some of us feel it was a mistake, others, like yourself, don't. Let's agree to disagree.
Regards Al
Passion is driven by one's philosophy. And I'm passionate about Porsches.
Historically, Porsche has developed a passionate fan base - among sports car enthusiasts. It'll be interesting to see if the company can continue to do so. And if they continue to diversify their product line, with the relevant ramifications.
I have owned several SUVs, BTW. And wouldn't mind having a Cayenne. However I still hold that there were other ways to bolster the bottom line. Some of us feel it was a mistake, others, like yourself, don't. Let's agree to disagree.
Regards Al
10-24-2003 | 02:49 PM
#36
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 2,244
From: Up Nort
Originally posted by Duke
Let me put it this way... Ferrari.
Do I need to point out that they don't produce anything else but sports cars and never ever produces any commercials at all?
Let me put it this way... Ferrari.
Do I need to point out that they don't produce anything else but sports cars and never ever produces any commercials at all?
10-24-2003 | 02:58 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,552
Likes: 18
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally posted by Hacker-Pschorr
Guess you forgot about Fiat.
Guess you forgot about Fiat.
Fiat and Ferrari don't share models or platforms..nor do they share engines.
10-24-2003 | 03:24 PM
#40
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,712
Likes: 3
We can certainly agree to disagree. I think this is the best possible way, given the market, to create large amounts of capital.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
10-24-2003 | 05:56 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 0
From: North Of Chicago
Matt H.-
While I agree that Porsche should build an alternate model that will generate profit, I think that the SUV was the wrong model. The notion that the SUV market is ever increasing is wrong. The SUV market grew as it did in the past because there were fewer SUV's out there and the choices were limited. Now there are dozen's to choose from.
I would have preferred a sedan or wagon as the alternate choice. The price on these would easily been the same as the current Cayenne's. I do not think it would have cost more to build/develop a sedan than it was for the SUV, so I think that the profit margin would have been the same if not better (less raw materials involved in building a sedan).
Duke
Ferrari did put it's engine in a Fiat (well Lancia) sedan. The Thema 8:32 used the V8 that was in the 328 at the time. Worse yet, the platform was FWD and was jointly developed with Saab and used in the 9000.
While I agree that Porsche should build an alternate model that will generate profit, I think that the SUV was the wrong model. The notion that the SUV market is ever increasing is wrong. The SUV market grew as it did in the past because there were fewer SUV's out there and the choices were limited. Now there are dozen's to choose from.
I would have preferred a sedan or wagon as the alternate choice. The price on these would easily been the same as the current Cayenne's. I do not think it would have cost more to build/develop a sedan than it was for the SUV, so I think that the profit margin would have been the same if not better (less raw materials involved in building a sedan).
Duke
Ferrari did put it's engine in a Fiat (well Lancia) sedan. The Thema 8:32 used the V8 that was in the 328 at the time. Worse yet, the platform was FWD and was jointly developed with Saab and used in the 9000.
10-24-2003 | 06:26 PM
#43
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,712
Likes: 3
Riff- the largest margin of profit is in the SUV market. The reason there are dozens is because the market is huge. It is this eras station wagon.
84NA - I am puking on that joke of an argument. Without diversification in 30 years people might be asking, Porsche, WHO? If you want heritage go buy a 911. You own a 944, the blacksheep of the Porsche family. If they could make them all go away they would.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
84NA - I am puking on that joke of an argument. Without diversification in 30 years people might be asking, Porsche, WHO? If you want heritage go buy a 911. You own a 944, the blacksheep of the Porsche family. If they could make them all go away they would.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
10-24-2003 | 06:37 PM
#44
Race Car
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
From: Washington, D.C.
How many companies can we name that have survived selling only one model for 40 years straight? And, keep it original, cause the enthusiests get mad. NONE! Look at Lambo, they made one model a decade (practically cause no one ever bought the other ones...) and the company was traded around like no one wanted them! Oh wait...but they still make the most "practical" supercar! Still as wild too! Hmm...theres a thought...maybe VW/AUDI should buy Porsche! Keep it in the family!
VW/AUDI/PORSCHE Maybe they would keep Porsche making only sports cars? Hows that for a thought? Any opinions on getting bought out?
VW/AUDI/PORSCHE Maybe they would keep Porsche making only sports cars? Hows that for a thought? Any opinions on getting bought out?
10-24-2003 | 06:44 PM
#45
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,712
Likes: 3
Ding! we have a winner.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote