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I finally found a little time to get started on the build-up of my next project car. Young Herbie is the name. Taken as a twist on a popular comedy film from the 70s. Herbie was my first 944 and much of him will be in this one.
Here are some shots of the shell getting moved from its previous storage location to its new spot, closer to the tools/ house/ beer/ etc.
The shell (an 86 951) was obtained for the outrageous price of $100, plus the gas to go and collect it, from a kid in CT.
It was initially expected to get everything transferred from Herbie, since the latter was getting pretty rusty. Getting rear-ended in May of 2010, Herbie was taken off the road earlier than anticipated. Plans have changed, but much still remains the same. A lot of Herbie will live on in this car.
I've only had a few days worth of time to start stripping things off what's left of the shell. Probably close to one hundred pounds of sound deadener, insulation and hardware have come off already. Would like to be rid of all of it - but the cost/ benefit ratio will need to be examined when it comes to some areas.
The shell is solid and quite straight. There is a little rust in the battery box area, the spare tire well took a big hit and someone delivering hay must have backed their trailer into the left rear quarter. Other than that - and for its intended use, this is a solid foundation from which to start.
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco; 08-18-2016 at 11:07 AM.
I want simple and lightweight tow hooks both front and rear.
The usual aftermarket rear unit (thank you Rennbay) may not get used on this car. Since bumpers will not be a part of this build, it frees up the mounting holes for my plans.
Gah, stripping the sound crap off of these cars is the worst!
I assume you're going to put a cage in this car? Not sure if you guys do your own cages and welding, but we used McMahan Auotosport in North-central Ohio (www.rollcageguy.com)... he did an awesome job for a really fair price, staying on schedule and budget.
Gah, stripping the sound crap off of these cars is the worst!
I assume you're going to put a cage in this car? Not sure if you guys do your own cages and welding, but we used McMahan Auotosport in North-central Ohio (www.rollcageguy.com)... he did an awesome job for a really fair price, staying on schedule and budget.
Looks like a big project!!
Initial plan is for a harness bar. Rules do not require a cage, or even a roll bar. Weight is the enemy - and I am a worthy opponent.
If I do decide something more is warranted in the future, my guy (Thompson Racing Fabrication) will be contacted.
Yes - big project. Don't look for this thing to be in competition for quite some time. This JOB thing really slows these things down. Then again, it does help offset costs.
Q: do you think a rallycross suspension and stage rally suspension are essentially the same setup. Or would you set it up differently than a stage car?
Q: do you think a rallycross suspension and stage rally suspension are essentially the same setup. Or would you set it up differently than a stage car?
Will you use swaybars?
No. Were this a stage rally car, I would be using much more robust dampers and would look at the possible need for more structure at the suspension pick-up points.
For this build, I will be using Koni or Bilstein dampers with no other major modifications. With all of the weight I plan to take out, I don't expect there will be a need to raise ride height much from nearly stock stance.
I will use anti-roll bars. Stock front and probably a larger rear bar.
We've RallyCrossed these cars for years. They're pretty good right out of the (30 year old) box. What will set this car apart will be the weight savings. If you think your car is light - which it probably is - this will blow it away.
Where is the low hanging fruit for weight to come out of the front of these cars? We're building a 951 for chump/WRL and as we've pulled everything out of the car it has become really nose heavy. I guess we'll probably start putting things back in the trunk like cool suit box, and we should probably relocate the battery to the rear, but I hate messing with wiring that is currently working. I could probably pull the HVAC out, but I wanted to keep the ability to defrost. I did get rid of all the power steering and AC things, and pop up light parts, but it's still a tank up front, especially with the extra weight of the turbo parts compared to the NA
Do you need the tie downs bolted to the underside? Hood hinges? Bumper shocks?
I figure I will make a removable panel where the HVAC unit would reside. For cold events, I would put the heater in with some ducting and plumbing.
You are going to be limited on what you can do without. Me - not so. There will be no bumper, no nose and no lights. P/S and A/C of course will not be there either. The bracket for the P/S reservoir will be cut out.
I plan to make a fiberglass panel to replace the hood, nose panel and light covers. There is also a ton of sound deadener inside the fenders and in the wheel arches. This stuff is a royal pain to remove though.
What about taking weight out of the doors? There's a lot there. I plan on using Lexan windows and a pull cord to release the latch. The doors themselves will get attacked by ground hogs with a good understanding of engineering basics.
Yeah, we gutted the doors.... and my other mechanical engineer friends attacked removing structure from the steel hood.... We ended up with a hood with absolutely no strength that is still heavy as $hit. We dumped the bumper shocks, but I kept the bumper because I think there are too many clowns in low budget enduros to go without it. Fiberglas costs us points, but cutting stuff out is free. Hadn't considered the hood hinges yet, but I somewhat think they are useful for pit stops.
Anyway, not to completely hijack your thread... What are you using for power?
We had a chance for a stock 951 for our rally cross car, but I figured it would be traction limited, and money better spent on an NA that is lighter... But after the one event that we did locally, it was surprisingly good at putting down all the NA power. Seems like an S2 engine would be a good compromise. I'm not sure that I'm talented enough (or certainly not patient enough) to manage turbo lag in the dirt. I'm basically looking at stock class for now because I don't want to put money into actual rally tires...but if I keep having to replace control arms and front bumper covers, I may just say eff it, and pull a ton of weight out of the car.
OK - I actually did something to Young Herbie two days ago. Though it did not start out as such. I needed to replace the window winder motor in Nico. I had two (or more) cars to choose from.
Since there is a plan with regard to the final color scheme, the decision was made easy. The door(s) from Penelope would be needed.
Starting weight was 63 pounds. After removing all bolt-on bits, it was down to 35 pounds. I will eventually try to take another 5 to 10 pounds out with some clever hacking (also known as cutting and grinding).
08-18-2016, 10:19 AM
Young Herbie - MR RallyCross build
