I see- thanks a lot! But, I'm STILL confused- I hate to ask this, but I've never known & suspect that many other do not either- what is the "B-pillar?" I know the A-pillar is the driver side pillar- is it also the pasneger side, as in pairs, OR, are the front two pillars (driver AND passenger) the "A-pillars" & the next pair back the "B-pillars," etc...? Sorry if that's a REALLY stupid question... The header panel that runs behind, that covers the gear boxes- well, I would call it a SR header panel too- makes enough sense, since it is there FOR the SR...

Second- can you please throw your panel on a bathroom scale? I've been told that the 924 manual roof is lighter than the electric ones due to different internal parts- I picked one up beside mine once & it WAS indeed several pounds lighter, but, w/out a scale, I could not confirm by how much- I'm thinking ~3lbs- my Turbo S lid weighs 19lbs- your's IS a 924 lid isn't it?

Thanks a lot...

 

It's simple. Though I was confused for a long tim. Pillars are named from A at the fron of the car, in incriments towards the back of the car. So A pillar are the two either side of the windshield. B pillar is either side just aft of the doors. In a foor door C pillars would be just aft of the rear doors. Easy isn't it

I'd be happy too, if I had a bathroom scale. Not sure it's a 924 lid, think it's an early 944 lid.

 

Weirdest thing,my current unit(83' 944) has manual sunroof.Its one of things I don't like(also doesn't have inside release for rear hatch).I was thinking this post would be about that conversion(which to me would rocket science)but it is exactly the opposite(concerning auto sunroof to manual.I've had 3 other 944's and they all had the electric pop-up and I don't recall any issues(other than trying to figure out how to get the arms to retract so the roof could be removed).I didn't realize what a desirable feature the manual unit is?

 

The reason you're thinking this way is b/c you were fortunate enough to never have an electric one break on you They have more switches & microswitches & relays, etc, etc, etc, than you would EVER want to mess with when one breaks... I don't think you could convert your manual TO electric w/out spending so much $ that you'd be better off just buying a whole new car WITH electric already in it- there are tubes that run under neath the headliner all the way from the reat, etc- it would be a nightmare to threads in there- probably couldn't w/out literally tearing the car apart. I'd rather them just do the thing like older Audi/VW's w/the crank, etc- the SR could slide out on TOP of the car like modern hondas since it's so big- otherwise they would have to build it small like 928 & thicken the roof slightly...

As for how to remove the lid- you have to have the engine OFF. Then, you turn the key to the first position- this releases the arms from the lid- you get out of the car & pull the roof out & stick in your hatch or wherever- UNLESS you are one STRONG gutsy MF... I know a guy who swore he removed his Saratoga this way- used ONE arm, turned the lid so it would come out through the inside (I've done this very carefully, but, still ended up getting out to lay it down more gently in the rear) & then just flipped back into the back- w/OUT breaking it- he was evidently a very large guy, AND, his was a 924, so it had to weigh a tiny bit less, based on MY experience & what I've been told...

Not sure if the 944 manual was less, but, I've been told that all 924 manuals were definately lighter than 951 electric lids- the only one (924) I ever picked up confirmed this, but not sure how much exactly...

Thanks for the input Sid- I suspected they were labeled in pairs...

Not sure any of this matters too much though, unless you're really tall- I'm 5'9" & the seating position sucks for a SR- the thing is directly over my head so that I can't enjoy it- had I known beforehand, I probably wouldn't have bought the car- had I known I'd have over $23K into the thing after having bought it for $9K after only 4yrs w/out having really done anything cool to it, I DEFINATELY would not have bought it Anyway, anyone know any way to make some pedal spacers & a steering wheel spacer (I already have Momo wheel) that would be sloped so it would NOT contiue to RAISE the wheel as it got closer to the driver? I'm thinking pedal covers w/some sort of spacer that moves the pedals ~1.75" closer & a wheel spacer that moves it ~1.25" closer... Any input? I think I'm going to start a new thread right now...

 

Mick, the point of have an electric motor on our cars to merely tip up the rear of the sunroof panel is at best overkill and at worst just plain stupid. Think about what that whole complicated cluster of **** does. It tilts your roof panel about 2 inches. Big f'ing deal. Now if the sunroof panel actually slid out of the way or something I could understand the point of having a motor, but for what it actually does, why bother.

Manual sunroof is infinitely more desirable in my opinion.

 

I've said it so many times, I'm just happy to finally hear someone else say it...

Since the manual roof tilts up too, what's to be missed? You only have to do oe more thing- you have to twist TWO levers around instead of pressing one button- problem is, when ONE TINY little POS micro-switch messes up, you can't use the damn thing at ALL anymore- unless you want to get out of your car everytime & adjust the motor, manually, at the rear of the car- you're at the mercy of the dealer to charge you anywhere from 2 - 20hrs to change one little $.50 part that SHOULDN'T have even existed in hte first fu**ing place... I like the old VW/Audi's- simple little crank arms at the front of the SR- crank it open & crank it closed- another good manual, albeit for a pop-up or pull-out style, like ours, was the Toyota & Honda style- had a latch at the rear- you unlocked it (in the middle) & shifted it backwards- it lokced into place w/the roof open ~2"- THEN, if you wanted to REMOVE it entirely, you just pressed these little pins inward, at each side of the handle, & the thing released- really simple...

 

Here's some rear latches if anyones needs em:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33652

 

Someone popped me a question so I thought I'd bump this for visibility.

Great winter project.

 

OK, I'm working on this same conversion and have noticed a couple more things. One, the interior panel from a manuel sunroof (as pointed out it is slightly different) does not fit on the powered sunroof panel on my car without a little trimming of the reinforcement structure of the sunroof panel. Seems the earlier manual panels (the one I have is either glass fiber or plastic, not sure, but it ain't metal) had less bracing glued one (yes there is aluminum bracing glued in place on the power panels). They are lighter, but maybe not as sturdy, and have some ***** little tensioning rod. I guess that is so you can adjust it to make it fit better? I'll have the manual panel painted this winter so I can just use it. Robby, I'll weigh it later if I can remember to bring the scales home.

Also, anybody with a car that came with a manual roof, is there a removeable valance between the sunroof and hatch like the once that covers the lifting crap on powered sunroof cars? If so I want to track one down so I don't have to hack up the valance I have.

 

Am I drunk or did I not completely understand what monkey boy just said.

And Monkey boy, I didn't have to hack up my valance at all.

 

No, I was rambling.

The valance issue I have is that I actually have a set of manual latch receivers and they won't really fit correctly under the power roof valance. I'll post a couple pictures later.

 

i recently tried to remove my sunroof panel for the first time - that damn slip-clutch ripped through the drivers side gear when i went to unlock the arms. after reading this post, others, and a few more questions that SidV answered for me - i'm going manual. Ditto, the comments regarding the elaborate and unreliable lifting system for a 3" crack in the roof. I want to be able to remove the panel often and without concern for ongoing problems.

as such, i have the latch parts coming and think i understand the procedure. here is what i need help with.

the passenger side lifting arm will completely retract and unlock. the driver side will only retract about 3/4 of the way and will not fully disengage panel (under auto or manual operation) and prevents me from removing the panel. if i unscrew the front deflector hinges, will the front of the panel (and deflector) lift off - this should allow me to slide the panel off the rear lifting arm?

i am thinking i could get an early headliner to reline my late panel to provide the necessary mounting area for the new rear latches, but the previous post suggest the panels ar not directly replacable and the sunroof panel stiffening ribs might need to be trimmed. is this so, and do i need to replace my existing late-style headliner?

any comments would be appreciated.

 

Manning will have more info on the headliner soon enough, and assuming we can keep him sober long enough for a coherent post should let us know.

As to removing the panel. Take the inside valence piece off and you should be able to unscrew the cover for the arms and disengage it that way.

 

If only it was booze that makes me ramble incoherently. I quit drinking (again) 5 or 6 years ago.

I'm going to run by the office in a bit to grab a camera and snap some pics. I'll post them later tonight.

 

OK, first the differences between manual panel and electric panel with pictures and detail shot of the brace that needs to be trimmed. Weights over 6lbs are rounded to the 1/2lb

Interior liner panel weight - 3.8lbs

Manual Panel weight without interior liner - 10.5lbs

Notice the spindley little rod at the front of the panel. I believe that is used to tension the panel a bit to make it fit better maybe.



Electric Panel weight without interior liner - 15.5lbs

Notice the massive cross bracing at the rear of the panel



And here is a detail of the bracing that needs to be trimmed slightly if you want to reuse your existing electric panel with an interior panel from a manual sunroof. The black bar is the bit that needs to be trimmed.



It only needs to be trimmed a bit to clear the area around where the latch handle recess is. I will probably us my existing panel for now without an interior panel and have the manual panel I got repainted to match my car.

Continued on next post...