dave120

Most of the "import tuners" make more power mostly by increasing the RPMS. The small 1.6L or whatever engines can rev pretty high because they're light parts. But look at the powerband of those things. Nil below like 6000 rpms. Look at the S2000, 250 hp out of a 2.0L NA. It also has only 110 torque, and has a high horsepower number simply because it revs to like 10,000 rpms.

Compare the power output of any of those things to your S2 motor at the same RPMS and see which one has more. Once they pass your rev limiter they start making more. I guarantee if you lightened your motor internals and got up to around 8000 rpms you'd be pushing some pretty good power too, with a loss of some low end of course.

Aside from actual power, they're kinda fats because they weigh less. An S2 weights around 3000 lbs, maybe a bit more. A Honda Civic weighs what? About 2700 for the 4 door? Lighter for better power/weight, but also means they die when they crash because their cars crush like tin foil because they're all plastic and paper thin sheet metal to make them cheap. They definately don't hold up all that well in a crash. Shed some weight off the S2 and it'll scoot for sure.

triscadek

Ford or Honda 4 cylinders didn't make 188 hp in 1988, but Porsche did. Seems to me that these n/a motors were up towards their limit stock, and still last 300,000 miles.

It's kind of comparing apples to oranges.

Sami951

I wouldn't worry about it. First, they're new cars. 15+ years of modern technology... of course they should get better results! Then there's the torque thing, I'd be very surprised to see a 240hp 1.8l Honda keep up with a, say, a 240hp 968. Thinking about it, I'd even go as far as to say that the engines we have are rather well tuned to a certain use, like good power between 3500-6000 rpms... and to change that, you'll need lots and lots of parts. If you don't change that, you're not going to see much more hp, because for that to happen you will need to make more torque at higher rpms, and it just isn't going to happen with the stock bottom end & valvetrain.

Here's some dyno results some local guy got with a Nissan "whatever you call it there" - the small car anyway - http://www.angelfire.com/super2/almera/auto.htm

Comparing the old torque curve against the new one, it sure looks like this guy is missing a lot of his old low end grunt... the mods only start to make a difference after 5000rpms. Sure it's 30hp more power, but only 11nm (which is less than 10lbft) more torque, and arguably the old torque curve is "better" (wider). I'm not sure if I'd call that useful, but if it floats somebodys boat, hey, more power to him.

Then there's also the thing with dynos in general. Did your friend dyno his Focus before the mods? Were the circumstances identical (temperature etc)? If not, who knows how much power he really gained. Also if that 140hp is crank hp, who knows how much it's off because of drivetrain loss calculation...

Btw, has anybody dynoed an S2 with a MAF, free-flow exhaust and a chip? I've seen many posts saying there is a noticeable difference with a chip, so maybe there's a few hp there... then, since new cars already have a MAF or a MAP system, a cone filter should work a lot better than in out cars - so how about switching to a MAF? I believe Huntley has some dyno chart of this on their web site, and there was some gain after this mod... sure, it's not cheap, but that's what happens when the market is so small.

Blah, too much stuff... I need to go get my coffee now ...

Sami951

Fishey, what the ¤!"#? That thing looks like a friggin radiator. I'd love to see how much pressure drop one would get with that....

jabbadeznuts

Well, the S2000 may not have a lot of torque, but that's what a gearbox if for. Think about it.

When I get to drive my dad's S2000, it sure as hell FEELS alot faster than my 944. Not as safe, but faster.

Honda (almost any Japanese car) engines have so many points of restirction on them because they are economy cars. (for the most part) A civic is not meant to handle anywhere near as well as a Porsche.

Porsche parts are egineered almost perfictly from the factory, so a new intake or exhaust isn't goning to eliminate any bottle necks like a Civic intake will.

A note on the durability. Right now, I'm at 243,xxx miles. That's LOT of miles for ANY car. It's a testimate to Porsche's design and manufacturing prowess. However, that Civic that's pushing 500 HP, will also have pretty good durability. He'll last over 150K miles. Japanese engines are very tough, even when you upgrade them.

Sami951

Yes, and it probably works for the S2000 because the engineers were able to build the engine and the gearbox together as a system.

My car makes most of it's usable power between 4000 and 6000 rpms, and it's obviout they knew this at the Porsche factory, as the ratios fit this range very well. Now if I were to modify my engine so that I'd gain a ****load of power between 5000 and 6000rpms, I'd have a lot of trouble using it efficiently, because every time I went over 6krpms and shifted, I'd be right at 4k rpms and out of my 5-6k powerband.

That's why I think broad torque band is useful.

ps - I've driven a Civic Type-R, which is of course no S2000 but I'd think they have a lot in common, as this one also gets a huge power boost at around 6000rpms and then pulls to the redline very nicely... all in all it was nice in a way, but I found it somewhat difficult to be able to use all the available power. Wasn't nowhere near as fast as my 951 even if the 0-62mph time would suggest so

dave120

Is that why you see so many S2000 engines blow sky high after like 30k miles? Race engines are supposed to rev that high...how long can you realistically expect a street car turning those kind of rpms to last? Most of the ones with more miles and haven't blown up aren't running the rpms up that high very often most likely. Or did Honda just turn out a bad batch of them at some point and they're for the most part reliable? I don't know...

Look at Porsche's new engines if you want to compare the ability to extract power from NA motors. 996 GT3 gets 380 bhp out of 3.6L. 105 hp/L. I think that's about what Honda has been making on their engines and bragging about is it not? But I guarantee you that Porsche motor is a lot more versatile and has a much more useable powerband than an econobox Civic. Porsche was ahead of the game back with our cars and they still are today in building sweet motors.

Fishey

None because you steal one of these from a turbo truck... Holset Turbo
http://www.pbase.com/image/18983197

to dial out lag? not possible but hey when boost hits I think you will know it..

theedge

The really sad thing is that there are cars coming out now with similar power/tq, and just as "slow" as a porsche 944 N/A, but are being hyped by their builders.

Take the new Pontiac Grand Am SC/T

175HP
205tq
"0-60 in less than 8 seconds"
I4 2.2L ectech engine.

And it has a carbon fiber hood stock, OMFG better go buy one, it MUST be fast

http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/gr...sing/main.jsp?

RMills944

maybe porsche just needs to bring the 944 back (well, no maybe about that) and get a version of an opposed 4 in it. i'd really like to see that happen!

The 944 engine just isn't easy to pull all that power out of cheaply.

Fishey

Even not cheaply everyone telling me 300rwhp isnt possible out of a 944 s2 engine (Money not an issue) but reliablity is..

dave120

oh it'd be possible to get that much power out of it. Make it rev to about 9000 rpms I'm sure you'd be close. Of course this means getting custom lightweight internals made, fuel delivery, engine management systems and all that to let it do that, but it's possible. Not sure you'd want to spend that kind of money though.

For a fraction of that price you could turbocharge an S2 and get that much power (or a lot more actually) pretty easily..I know that's been done.

Manning

Actually Cosworth was squeezing some impressive HP numbers out of the Ford 2.0L lump back then and before. Heck, even back in the 60's the Lotus 7 was getting something like 120 or 130 out of a 1.6L Ford lump.

Fishey

turbo's for my car are costly noone makes them avalible for $7,000 and for 7,000 I can supercharge... (sure I loose A/C but who cares)

Geo

Not at all true.

BTW, last I checked, we won WWII and a Porsche is also an import.

Maybe for a 1.6. Maybe. A Nissan SR20DE (2 liter) has a great deal of torque all through the rev range. My understanding is the Nissan GA16DE also makes good torque for a 1.6 all through the range.