Geico told me what my car was worth
09-24-2003, 05:50 PM
#31
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I have receipts showing all the work done on my car so they don't total it so quick if I bend a few fenders. If it was stolen I think I would be SOL. I would be looking at 4 grand if I was lucky. my car is old enough, I may just get agreed value insurance on my car. (I have invested 15K in 2.5 years plus my labor) I can Imagine there is a cap to the agreed value though, what If I insured my car for 30 grand then "accidentally" left it out of gear on a hill in San Francisco. 993 for me, I don't think so. so my question is how high can agreed value go?
09-24-2003, 06:05 PM
#32
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Originally posted by Tom R.
agreed value cost a lot less than you are paying now. only problem is the car has to be garaged, used only for pleasure, and can't be left at the train, or out of your sight.
mileage is limited to about 2500 a year, etc. plus you usually have to get an appraisal if the value is over a certain amount. thats how it works on my firebird with jc taylor.
wanna make a pool on what the final number before tax and deductible is?
agreed value cost a lot less than you are paying now. only problem is the car has to be garaged, used only for pleasure, and can't be left at the train, or out of your sight.
mileage is limited to about 2500 a year, etc. plus you usually have to get an appraisal if the value is over a certain amount. thats how it works on my firebird with jc taylor.
wanna make a pool on what the final number before tax and deductible is?
You guys should check out Grundy Worldwide Insurance:
http://www.grundy.com/
No milage limitations
I ran a quote for my 928 at an agreed value of $15,000 with liability set to 100,000 with comp and collision. The cost for the plan is $240 a year.
09-24-2003, 08:15 PM
#33
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From the Grundy website.
So you are not covered for everyday driving, and certainly not commuting to work. You also MUST have another car that is less than IIRC 5 years old that is your everyday driver.
Randy
This policy authorizes unlimited hobby use of your collector vehicle in collector activities, exhibits and parades. While participating in these events, owners are free to enjoy their collector vehicle without monitoring the odometer.
So you are not covered for everyday driving, and certainly not commuting to work. You also MUST have another car that is less than IIRC 5 years old that is your everyday driver.
Randy
09-24-2003, 10:12 PM
#35
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Sorry Tom R. I think I hijacked your thread. It wasn't intentional.
Do keep us posted on the outcome of your settlement. I've wondering many times what would happen to my car in that situation. I'll probably save this thread for the future just in case.
Good Luck!
Do keep us posted on the outcome of your settlement. I've wondering many times what would happen to my car in that situation. I'll probably save this thread for the future just in case.
Good Luck!
09-24-2003, 10:32 PM
#36
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no prob with the hijack. it helps us all.
just got off the phone with geico. they confirmed they dont use book value, but instead use fair market value.
Internal Revenue Revenue Ruling 59-60 defines FMV, and is supported by court cases.
Basically FMV is what a willing buyer will pay, and what a willing seller will accept, both having relevant knowledge, neither under pressure.
So FMV to Fishey is 100,000+.
The geico person said they use new york regulation 64. i cant find it on the nys web site.
The infor you guys sent me is a great help. i am going to prepare a proper appraisal, adjusting for mileage, year, condition etc.
The most recent, and similar sale is Andys. Take what he paid, add the "maintenance" he is performing on the car to get it right, adjust for the little things like color (red is worth at least 2000 more than white! JK) and come up with a value.
We both changed the speakers, wheels, cam, etc.
you cant tell me the work he is doing right now for shocks, etc has no impact on the value. the purchase price took into account the work that had to be done.
i got screwed on the camaro because i figured $200 to fix the radio problem the guy described. turns out i spent $500. i overpaid $300 because i deducted $200 to fix the radio, not 500. you get the idea.
I will keep you guys posted,and if very successful maybe start a business.
I do have a CPA, half my ASA in valuation, 12 years experience valuing businesses, etc. lets see.
just got off the phone with geico. they confirmed they dont use book value, but instead use fair market value.
Internal Revenue Revenue Ruling 59-60 defines FMV, and is supported by court cases.
Basically FMV is what a willing buyer will pay, and what a willing seller will accept, both having relevant knowledge, neither under pressure.
So FMV to Fishey is 100,000+.
The geico person said they use new york regulation 64. i cant find it on the nys web site.
The infor you guys sent me is a great help. i am going to prepare a proper appraisal, adjusting for mileage, year, condition etc.
The most recent, and similar sale is Andys. Take what he paid, add the "maintenance" he is performing on the car to get it right, adjust for the little things like color (red is worth at least 2000 more than white! JK) and come up with a value.
We both changed the speakers, wheels, cam, etc.
you cant tell me the work he is doing right now for shocks, etc has no impact on the value. the purchase price took into account the work that had to be done.
i got screwed on the camaro because i figured $200 to fix the radio problem the guy described. turns out i spent $500. i overpaid $300 because i deducted $200 to fix the radio, not 500. you get the idea.
I will keep you guys posted,and if very successful maybe start a business.
I do have a CPA, half my ASA in valuation, 12 years experience valuing businesses, etc. lets see.
09-25-2003, 01:39 AM
#37
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That is terrible news Tom. One of the reasons I encourage folks to run Porsches on an agreed value policy because these cars are niche vehicles sold to very specific niche buyers that do NOT get reflected in the market. The problem with fair market values these insurance companies use is that only account for the cars sold, not the cars people are driving but refuse to sell. For instance there are alot of Porsches like mine that are worth well above NADA and stuff yet unless I sell it that never gets reflected, so the market values are artificially low. If there are two Ferraris in the world and I own a brand new Ferrari and the guy next to me sells his Ferrari for $1 because hes stupid, the fair market value of my car is $1. Or is it really? Of course not. Thats why averages and fair market values are poor indicators.
Incidentally my 951 is insured for $16K. You should be able to haggle more than $10K outta them if you do your homework.
On my daily driver, I have EXTENSIVE photos of the car from every angle of every conceivable important piece of the car, just in case it gets stolen and I need to prove its condition and value. I usually update the photos once a year so they are current for arbitration purposes in case it gets that far. Think its overkill? Not two weeks after I did my annual photo op on my old GS-R, it got totaled and I had to fight with Progressive on value. Those photos, along with some other things, saved my bacon when they were prepared to shove a gigantic fire poker up my rear and try to screw me over on BS fair market value numbers.
Incidentally my 951 is insured for $16K. You should be able to haggle more than $10K outta them if you do your homework.
On my daily driver, I have EXTENSIVE photos of the car from every angle of every conceivable important piece of the car, just in case it gets stolen and I need to prove its condition and value. I usually update the photos once a year so they are current for arbitration purposes in case it gets that far. Think its overkill? Not two weeks after I did my annual photo op on my old GS-R, it got totaled and I had to fight with Progressive on value. Those photos, along with some other things, saved my bacon when they were prepared to shove a gigantic fire poker up my rear and try to screw me over on BS fair market value numbers.
09-25-2003, 10:15 AM
#38
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UD
I have a bunch of pictures posted on shutterfluy. check below. geico isnt interested in them.....yet!
The good news is that they are using fair market value instead of book value. they told me the NYS insurance dept gives them a choice, and all total losses in NY are valued using fair market value. that is my ace.
I have everyones response from my other post. I am going to put a value on the miles, and on the work needed to "replace" my car.
suddenly the difference between replacement value and fair market value narrows.
how can your car that needs this and that have the same value as my car that just had it done. seems if i take your car at FMV and add the work needed, FMV is awfully similar to replacement value.
i wont get the $$ for the "rebuilt motor", but should get the $$ for the motor mounts, rod bearings, rings, water pump, hoses (all 15 yr old hoses should be replaced for safety reasons), belts, cam chain and tensioner, etc.
sorry for me but the head gasket is either good or bad so i cant add that.
what average person has 15 year old aluminum rims that never scraped the curb, therefore all the comparables have a little curb rash, which justifies my buying new rims so the car looks nicer. i only buy genuine porsche parts because i dont believe in souping up the car, or modifying it!!! lol
see where I am going, or make that see how i am trying to avoid the fire poker!
I have a bunch of pictures posted on shutterfluy. check below. geico isnt interested in them.....yet!
The good news is that they are using fair market value instead of book value. they told me the NYS insurance dept gives them a choice, and all total losses in NY are valued using fair market value. that is my ace.
I have everyones response from my other post. I am going to put a value on the miles, and on the work needed to "replace" my car.
suddenly the difference between replacement value and fair market value narrows.
how can your car that needs this and that have the same value as my car that just had it done. seems if i take your car at FMV and add the work needed, FMV is awfully similar to replacement value.
i wont get the $$ for the "rebuilt motor", but should get the $$ for the motor mounts, rod bearings, rings, water pump, hoses (all 15 yr old hoses should be replaced for safety reasons), belts, cam chain and tensioner, etc.
sorry for me but the head gasket is either good or bad so i cant add that.
what average person has 15 year old aluminum rims that never scraped the curb, therefore all the comparables have a little curb rash, which justifies my buying new rims so the car looks nicer. i only buy genuine porsche parts because i dont believe in souping up the car, or modifying it!!! lol
see where I am going, or make that see how i am trying to avoid the fire poker!
09-25-2003, 10:42 AM
#39
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Looking at it from my perspective, a $10k offer would pretty much give me all I put into my car (so far)! Hopefully Allstate in NJ uses FMV.
As soon as you have a car that is older than 2 to 3 years, the depreciation is horrendous! That's why that collectors insurance is looking pretty cool. Problem is, there is no uninsured motorist coverage, or personal liability coverage--kinda important, I think (this is with that Grundy place).
As soon as you have a car that is older than 2 to 3 years, the depreciation is horrendous! That's why that collectors insurance is looking pretty cool. Problem is, there is no uninsured motorist coverage, or personal liability coverage--kinda important, I think (this is with that Grundy place).
09-25-2003, 01:46 PM
#40
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AndyK-
Im pretty sure you can have uninsured motorists. I will have to check my American Collector Insurance policy but I believe I have it. Is not quite as high as on my daily driver because I dont put a lot of miles on it to present opportunities to get in a wreck. I think I pay a little over $300/yr for 2500 miles/yr $16K agreed value. I'll check my policy tonight.
Im pretty sure you can have uninsured motorists. I will have to check my American Collector Insurance policy but I believe I have it. Is not quite as high as on my daily driver because I dont put a lot of miles on it to present opportunities to get in a wreck. I think I pay a little over $300/yr for 2500 miles/yr $16K agreed value. I'll check my policy tonight.
