Alpine951

I will be getting some five point harness soon. I was wondering if stock seats provide less protection than racing seats with a five point setup. If I used the stock seat I would get a sternum strap for the shoulder straps to prevent them from separating. I was at a DE recently and some one said tests had been done on the stock seats with harnesses and they don't proved the protection needed. he ran off before i could ask who did the tests.

Z-man

I think the main concern regarding this setup is the fact that the shoulder harnesses can more easily slip off your shoulders in the event of a collision, as you stated. Another concern is being able to get the lap belts to cinch down over the hips instead across your gut.

Stock seats and harnesses are NOT as safe as using a sport seat with the pass-through for the harnesses. There is no doubt about that. However, IMHO (I'll say it again: IMHO), stock seats and harnesses are better than just the stock belts, if correct measures are done! IE: A sternum strap or H-strap (behind the seats), and the use of a harness bar will help prevent the shoulder harnesses from slipping off.

Some people will cross the harnesses behind the seat: I do not condone this practice, since that can pinch out the harnesses over the shoulders.

Some PCA regions will not allow the use of 5 or 6 point harnesses with stock seats. Others have no problem. You should check with your region before purchasing a set.

BTW: I am the track tech co-chair for my region (NNJR), and we allow harness use with stock seats, provided a harness bar is used. As a matter of fact, I have stock seats, and use a 6-point harness system (with an H-strap connecting the two shoulder harnesses), looped over a harness bar.

HTH,
-Zoltan.

dave120

I use 6 points with my stock seats as well. They're Sparcos that have the H strap behind the seat that goes over my roll bar. Once you get the thing tightened down I don't see how they could really slip off. I think that's more speculation than anyone actually having that problem. The lap belt thing is true though, they don't seem to sit in the right spot, but you can get them pretty close with adjustment.

But Z is right some clubs won't allow them with stock seats. If that's the case I'd just go buy a pair of pure bucket racing seats for cheap and put them in for the event and then switch them back out. It's not that hard to swap seats. I may actually do the same thing soon...I want racing seats fo DEs but I like my stock seats for the street.

Travis - sflraver

There is one concern with the 5pt harness no matter what seat you run. You should never run a 5 pt. with out a roll bar/cage. If for some reason you roll the car, the 5pt will keep you straight up in the seat. If the roof smashes down you CANT move or be pushed down to compensate... there for you lose your head. No one like to lose the head now do they?

Get a roll bar!!!

Z-man

I knew this would come up. While I agree that roll cages would help in terms of safety, I do not think it is that dangerous to drive our cars without one, regardless of what type of seat restraint is being used. For one, I have not seen a car flip at a DE event to date! While it may happen, the odds are in your favor that it won't occur.

The reason I feel this way is because I've seen several pics of flipped 944's, and their B and C pillar areas are very strong: they tend NOT to collapse in a roll-over. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about the A-pillar! They cave in pretty easily from what I've seen. So even if a 5-point harness will keep you straight up (which, in reality, it does not), there should be enough room for you to survive a flip.

The typical roll-bar that gets mounted behind the front seats really offers no extra protection for the most vulnerable part of our roofs: the A-pillar. So while a Roll-bar may offer some peace of mind, it's not worth it, IMHO. It won't strenghthen the weak point.

What is best is a roll-cage that has a tube going from the top of the driver's side A pillar to the passenger's side A-pillar. Many of the DE cars are also street cars. Some people feel safer with the roll-bar, and are willing to deal with the relatively small annoyance it has. However, not too many people are willing to put up with using a full roll-cage in a street driven car!

So, unless you go with a full cage, I believe (again, IMHO), that a roll-bar won't improve the crash protection of our cars notably.

Sorry for rambling,
-Zoltan.

Ag951

This thread might save me some money. I was about to shell out $500 for a Sparco Fighter seat.
Where can you get a sternum strap or H strap? If I can use one of those and a $130 harness bar, that'll be sweet.

Travis - sflraver

Zoltan,
I only brought that up because I have heard of problems with other cars, but never a 944. Just something to look into though.
The point of nothing less than a full roll cage will help the "problem" does sound correct.

Just regurgitating information here for the sake of conversation.