944J

thats the key here, the budget to do it quickly is very high the budget to do the engine as the 2nd engine (while you drive the car that looks exactly how you want with a brand new paint job and body kit and 18" wheels) is low and you can do an excellent job and make it cheap if you used excellent used parts...

but we need the actual parts list and prices to verify the costs to see if there can be a savings by doing th work yourself.

I see that if I buy a turbo then I will buy another turbo(actual turbine) if I want more HP, which is a waste of money.

ljd-924SE

i think a supercharger kit from huntleyracing.com or speedforceracing.com would be the ideal situation for you. you get to keep your NA and get all the power you can handle without looking for another car or taking on the risk of an engine swap. there are different kits to fit your power needs and budget limitations.

MM951

Well, I know I'm going against everyone here, but I'd go for the swap. It'll be a learning experience for all of us. And i think one person has done it VERY recently and also Andy has done it...maybe you could ask their input.

944J

those kits cost as much at the whole 1987 turbo car I am considering buying...

Danno

Don't have any more to say than what others have posted here. So I'll just add a little bit to the existing advice.

That #2 option may look cheaper from your totals, but you forgot a couple of things. Also, you would sell the 944NA to make #1 comparable to #2 so that you end up with just one car. You can sell the NA for at least $2500, so the real #1 total would be:

1987 Turbo (this car has ABS and airbags)
$4500 - car price
$250 - pre purchase inspection ( the car is not in so cal)
$300-$1000 - ship the car to so cal
$2500 - horsepower package from somewhere (bigger turbo, misc upgrades)
$1500 - 968 rear end shipped from albert web and paint on it
$600 - for the 968 lights
- $2500 sale of 86 944NA
----------------
$7050 TOTAL to sell 944NA and pick up a 951

On the #2 option a used $1000 951 engine is definitely going to need rebuilding, so add another $1000 in parts and machine-shop services (measurements, flattening deck & head, etc.). Then add the value of your time for the swap. Estimate around 200 hours X $25/hr = $5000. That's because of instead spending time doing the engine-swap, you can just be working at your job instead and bringing in income (opportunity cost). Add that to the costs of your #2 option along with all those other parts you'll need to upgrade to bring the '86 944NA up to 951 levels and the real costs is:

my 1986 NA with upgrades to 951 level
$550 car with new koni yellows and drilled rotors from my dads car fire
$1500 for the 968 body kit shipped to me (front and rear)
$800 for the 968 lights front and rear (used)
$2000 for paint
$1000 for engine
x? for the remaining parts to make the engine a working turbo engine
y? for any other parts I might want to make the car exactly how I like it
$1000 engine rebuild & machining
$500 951 DME/KLR computers to control engine
$100 951 engine harness
$300 951 intercooler pipes, intercooler,
$400 951 AFM, throttle-body, intake-manifold & injectors
$150 951 oil-cooler & hoses
$850 951 exhaust headers, crossover, wastegate, downpipe
$200 used K26/6 turbo
$200 turbo water-pump, relay, hoses and overflow tank
$400 951 radiator
$1000 used 951 tranny
$500 951 front suspension and brakes
$200 951S swaybars
$5000 labor to perform swap (200hrs X $25/hr)
- $400 sell 944NA engine
------------------
$16,250 plus x and y is true cost of 944NA to 951 conversion

This costs about double what it would be to sell your car and buy a 951. And you still don't get the ABS brakes or airbags. Don't EVEN think for one minute that your 944NA tranny will last any more than 9months to 1-year under the loads imposed by a 951 engine. Many, many people have swapped in late 944-NA trannies to get lower gearing for autocross, street-racing, whatever and have paid the price with this:



Think about the transition from the Turbo to TurboS with just 15% more power and 10% more torque, they had to beef up the tranny with hardened 1st and 2nd gears. Now think about adding 50% more power and almost double the torque into a 944NA tranny...

indiana_86_944_turbo

if you have 5 large tp spend on making a turbo hell ill sell ya my 86

Mike B

Build it or Buy it???

That's easy...Buy it...You get a pile more than a turbocharger with a 944 turbo...The picture posted earlier details but a few of the improvements.

jabbadeznuts

Danno

"...realizing right from the start that simply bolting on a turbocharger, tweaking the engine a little, and changing the name was the wrong way to go..."

I've got a full hi-res printable copy of that ad on my 951 RacerX website along with other ones that would make nice posters if anyone has a large-format printer...

Peckster

Was Andy happy with his decision? Are there any threads here about it? I must have missed them, because I'm still waiting to hear from someone who's actually done it.

Now's the time to chime in if you have.

I agree about going for the swap, I want to hear about someone actually trying it.

nine-44

Yeah, Andre and I have both been working on the swap. Andre is going closer to what you want, just an engine swap with other things in mind later. I bought a complete 951 engine locally from a guy going an LT-1 swap in an 87 Turbo car. I got every part he pulled for 2200 bucks, A STEAL! I pulled the head, went wide fire ring HG all new seals, rod brearings, pan baffle, Lindsy BIG fuel pump, turbo trans, Cup car clutch, breather catch can, etc etc...Like others have said, if you are unsure of the parts or car, it can be a potential catastrophy. Get really farmiliar with these car before you attempt it. Good luck, feel free to contact me with any quetions.

nine-44

I'm happy so far, the motor looked great inside with 87K on the clock. I have plans to upgrade beyond 951 specs, so the cost of buying a turbo was not in my favor. Right now she'll be riding on NA supension and brakes with a 951 trans, open diff. All that will change with time and money. I have yet to start it or drive it, I can't brag on how well it does yet. I'll probably wait untill spring time to take it out, winter is approaching with a quickness here in OH and I see no reason to rush it with my current license stiuation.

944J

thanks danno, that's what I was looking for...

Legoland951

Forget the out of stater. I got an 86 turbo in L. A. that needs bodywork for $3700 that runs and drives well with koni yellow fronts. I also got a guy who will fix the body and paint the whole car for $650 color sanded and polished. The timing belt was done 10k miles ago and the seats are near perfect. The thing passes smog with no problems and does not smoke with a great shifting tranny. I got 3 951s and the tripling of the car tax in California is gonna kill me since I have 11 cars.

944J

send me some pics of the 86 at

sales at venturait dot com