Tom

The problem with the seal is that it will leak a small amount of oil onto the timing and balance shaft belts. The oil will then degrade the belts and will attract dust which will further degrade the belts, which could lead to premature failure and if not caught will lead you to start a "My timing belt broke and my valves are bent!" thread.

This is why many will say replace the waterpump and all the seals and rollers and tensioners every belt change turning a $200 job into a $1000 job. I don't subscribe to this theory but I do accept that this scenario is a distinct possibility. The seal may have been ok at the time and affected by the new belts if they were on the tight side.

The options seem:

Dealer does it all now.

Get seal done, ignore radiator or do it yourself (not too hard a job to start on but some caution in filling and bleeding the cooling system is necessary.

get re-tension done, ignore main seal at this time but remember that in the next 10000 miles or so you will have to bite the bullet and get new belts much sooner than otherwise. There may be additional parts necessary to be replaced too in this case depending on how messy the belt system gets. Remember to check oil and coolant often!

incessant

Thank you very much for your insight Tom. I don't think I will put more then another 2,000MI this year.. do you think this could be put off until I take it out of storage next year? Or will it continuously leak during the winter and have hazardous effects? This whole thing has caught me at a finacial low, so I am trying to fend off the repair. (I know it's sacreligious). I obviously will have it done if the consenses is a big MUST. I can't risk a major repair out of a minor one.

Also, do you really think this could have just started? I figured that this seal would be standard replacement anyway. I am really upset that with all the mark-ups, they didn't even offer this seal replacement!! I figured all the seals were standard between this and the 60K mile servicing.

Thanks again.

-Rhad

Ben Plaisted

I don't know if this will help any but the mechanic I take my car to is in Old Orchard and he is a lot cheaper than the dealer and he has 944's in the parking lot. He is also PCA certified. The name is Performance Plus in Old orchard beach. It's really easy to find. The Number is 883-2656 ask for Ralph. The place doesn't look like much but he knows his ****.

Tom

The tension check is important as the consequences of a timing belt slipping can be severe so that should be done as appropriate if you plan on driving the car, Otherwise I would guess that there would be little harm in letting it sit (remember to check fluid levels before starting). For driving the milage you suggest there probably would be no harm (unless you are talking about 2000 mi at Lime Rock). There is the risk of sudden total failure which would leave you stranded. Obviously I can't see what these leaks are like to judge but I would guess that putting them off along with limited driving wouldn't hurt if they are just dripping. If I did that, I might seriously putting on new belts when the seal was replaced in the spring (cost=new belts at that point). That would give you time to see if there were alternatives to dealer service, or to study and seek mentoring if you decide to do it yourself. These cars are rare in dealer service bays now so a lot of the expertise is independent. Also if you consider doing the belts yourself you should get access to the holy grail (the tension guage) and some other tools to do the job correctly. There is a Rennlist tool club for Rennlist members for that. Check www.clarks-garage.com for procedures and other information.

Seal replacement isn't a part of belt changing and they may not have mentioned the other things (changing rollers seals etc) for fear you would be upset they were pushing unnecessary repairs. The leaks could have not been present or noticeable at that time.

Finally be aware you have a rare and somewhat desireable bird with a 2.7L 944 (most powerful of the 8-valves) with low miles. Good Luck

triscadek

If the main seal only leaks a qt. every 3 mos. and you're not seeing a puddle the size of a half dollar when you park,I would just put it off til later. My main seal leaked over 10k miles til I got my belts done.

And the coolant leak may be managable if you keep an eye on the coolant level in the res. tank.

The dealer mech. is most likely doing what dealer mechs. do, bringing in business. Many of the customers that they see are very **** about their cars and do not want a leak period, and don't care what it costs to fix it.

These cars are not such prima donas that a small leak will cause havoc, older cars do develop leaks, just watch the fluid levels so they don't get low and you ought to be OK til spring.

As far as leaking all winter, if the car sits a few days watch for a puddle under it to see if it grows without the car having been run, if it doesn't constantly leak now it shouldn't leak all winter and even if it does put an oil drain pan under the car to catch it. If you don't drive it in the winter you can't very well hurt it.

Also. a GOOD independant Pcar mech. (like mine) will tell you if a leak needs fixing now or can wait for a belt change.

UDPride

I can empathize with those like me who look at the innards of a car and go "Oh my god." I just do not have the proper brain for it. In almost every set of directions I read I say to myself "God almighty, why didnt they just tell me to do it this way or that way instead of the most confusing way or with the most confusing words with double meanings????"

If someone tells me to tighten a screw, I tighten it. Then I hear one of two things:


"Jeeeezz!!!! You dont have to break it, you are going to ruin it!! Not so freakin tight!!!! You nearly ruined an $800 part!!!"

"My God!! You didnt tighten those as tight as you could get them?? You are going to have to do them all over! Put some elbow grease into them!!! Had you driven that car you woulda been spewing parts out the back end!!"

I just have a completely different set of logic. I even had to ask Wade how to understand the sign and drive directions for the SW Ohio get together. To me, they were confusing. "Is this telling me to turn here, or at the next intersection make the right turn???"

Give me one of those wacked out paintings that looks like TV snow, and I will find the pirate in 2 seconds though.

SidViscous

$10 says your dyslexic.

And that's not an insult, I am too. Creates different thought processes, and dyslexics visualize more so than lesser people.

Come to think of it. I'v never done well with manuals either. I use the piccies to tell me what to look at, and the text for things like TQ values.

JDeitz951

You can't own one of these and pay the dealer for do all the work. Just a waste of money. It's cheaper to make payments on the new boxster!

incessant

Thank you all so much for your posts. I have been really struggling back some serious frustration all day, and your responses have made a big difference. I would think that if the leak was bad the dealer would have made sure I knew that, and wouldn't want me to drive away with it otherwise.

I only drive it until first snow, so I probably won't have it out much longer. I average 5K miles a year on the car, but started driving late this year. I can't see driving more then 2K more.. I drive an average of 5 miles a day to and from work, with a weekend trip to the beach. I really hope it will be ok.

Ben, thank you so much for the reference! I will deffinatley give Ralph a call. That is great info! It's hard to know who to bring your car to.

You are right JDeitz, it is cost prohibative to have your car totally dealer maintained. I did have my initial major work done there, mainly to get the warranty on the clutch. Smaller time consuming jobs should be brought elsewhere... I have decided.

I do well with manuals.. I have just never worked on cars. It's more a confidence thing. I don't know as I would want my first car repair to be quite so large. I read the Haynes manual this morning, and the ACTUAL seal replacement is easy.. it's just getting to it. The manual dosen't look at each job individual (start to finish) either, which is annoying. \
Actually my first repair was going to be my sunroof. Just got the gears in from Pelican.

Well, here's hoping I have a finacial turn around before the end of October, I will get it done this year. Otherwise it will wait. (Fingers crossed).

-Rhad

incessant

Just keeps getting better.

So I picked up my car today.. can you believe the dealer tried to charge me $255.00 to TENSION THE BELT! $255! I about came out of my SHOES! Not only was I under the impression this was a free service since they installed the belts... I was told by the service guy in June that I wouldn't have to pay for it! Good thing I had him write that on my invoice! I was able to get out of it, (after fetching my invoice from the glove box) but the guy was a total schmuck about it, and didn't even see me to my car (to raise up the rope it was behind). Man am I pissed off.

aaarghhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

TaboII

Alright

Here is my .002 worth and I'll bet this may ring true for a lot of us out here. Yes we have all spent this kind of money on our cars at "Reputable shops even dealers” Just to find we need another 2k worth of work. I personally have little to no faith in any of the shops that do basic work on this old of a car. I am biased because of some very bad experiences and have to say that there are some good ones out there and I want to stress “SOME” shops and shop owners that pride them selves on the job being done right, I just haven’t found ANY worth trusting again in my area.

Ok with that said and as a long time mech myself I purchased most if not all the necessary tools and outfitted myself with what I needed to do most of the work if not all myself. "Save for machinist work" I can handle most basic to moderate jobs on these cars and have done so. "This weekend we are replacing an 86 N/A clutch in a fellow Rennlisters 944 in my drive way. Total cost will be for parts only and well, maybe a steak on the BBQ after were done. I have done two complete belt changes now and currently am in the process of removing and rebuilding my motor as we speak.

Now if you’re only putting on 2K more worth of miles on the car have a ball. Watch your fluid levels and make sure your have the belt re-tensioned at the 1500 mile mark just to be safe. I would not worry about it too much as the mileage is going to be very low. I wouldn’t go racing or to a DE event until these problems are resolved.

No promises but I may be talked into helping you out next fall and help your replace your main seals, at the same time resolve your leaky radiator and redo all your belts. I might need a little arm twisting but hey I do this because I like to not because I am making money at it. I only have to ok the visitors with my better half as we will have a new addition to the family this coming January and set everything up in advance, there shouldn’t be a problem.. Hmmm any one up for a heavy duty tech session on changing belts resealing the front end and fixing a leaky radiator in one weekend? Oh you will have to buy the parts but that cost will be minimal considering the alternative cost. We'll get it done right the fist time and not worry about it from there on out. We may want to hook up before the attempt to make a parts list and get the plan straight but it shouldn’t be a problem. PM me we should get in contact via phone and discuss the possibilities. Oh If your concerned about wondering who I am just talk to some of the old times here that have seem my work and no I am not just blowing smoke in your direction. “Riff, Alos,Turby? Anyone out there willing to back me up here LOL”

Well that’s enough for now your move, let me know what you want to do.

TaboII

incessant

TaboII,

That is an exceeding nice offer that I can't refuse. I really would love to get my hands dirty on this, but I need an experienced p-tech to guide me. Or, for me to assist. . I would love to take you up on your offer.

Sounds like you've been taking on some major jobs. Anyone taking on a clutch has got my vote of confidence.

-Rhad

88_944

You should ALWAYS ask a specialist about replacing certian parts that are not usually recommened. A friend of mine replaced his clutch. Bought a complete clutch kit (which doesnt includ the rear crankshaft seal nor the pilot bearing), two months later, they found that the rear crank seal is leaking, had to do the whole job once again....and THIS time, i advised him on relacing the pilot bearing along to make sure you got the whole job right

TaboII

Here are a few pics of the SIlver Bullet's progress
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/enginelift2.jpg
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/698project.jpg
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/lift3.jpg

Ben Plaisted

Hey TaboII and Rhad if and when you guys do this I'd like to come down and watch/help I want to learn how to fix some stuff. I'm a visual learner so it would be perfect.