User 462021

i'm there

Chris_924s

too bad we have to post like ****** to figger out it's easier to chat.. but that's MY issue..

SidViscous

Since when does the BSA have the power to sue? Best they can do is ASK you if all your software is licensed. then they bluster a bit.

Oh so XP and ME are the only MS OS's. Well considering how ill informed you are you might think that's true. What are you like 17.

Civil Suit BWAHAHAHAHAHA actually I think it was a paternity suit, seing as how he's f*cked every one in the US.

YEah, software is wicked easy to write. It's just ones and zeros. and typing.
Once again. There are more to computers than Desktops. You are aware that Alphas are still around. And who owns them now.

Your right the Robber Barrons that decimated our economy should have been able to sit on thier porch and shoot hobo's off the train, So should Bill be able to, and The RIaa should send you to jail for 30 years for downloading one song.

"MS hasn't made money in years." Oh please, give me a frikin break. Maybe they upped thier stock with fooling around, couldn't have been illegal as you've already pointed out. But they are making money. They recently had to find away of blowing some of thier cash reserves because they were accumulating it so fast they ran out of places to put it.

"Those companies should use other software then" They can't. That's the point. If you don't buy computers from them you must make your own because EVERY major computer maker, and and small computer maker that sells MS software had to sign that agreement.

I would take the Sandwich Bill was eating, his girlfriend, car and anything else I could get my hands on.

Actually around 0.75 a copy (After cd cost packaging etc) is probably damn close to the actual cost.

That last paragraph makes little sense.

But the most I can make out of it, is you liken yourself to the French being passive and hoping the Germans would go away, and me to resistance fighters that did somethign about it. That's illegal too you know. (and yes it's a wild exageration, so don't give me crap about that. Make fun of my spelling or something)

zehnd

looks like that would hurt.

poor smiley guy.

Chris_924s

Sid. Have another beer and relax.. You need to relax. Breathe in the good air. out with the bad air. j/k

SidViscous

Me? What about the other ones like AG.

Sh*t man no one called them a felon, why are they all worked up.

I think they have loads of M$ stock.

Ag951

Since the day it was formed. The BSA exists solely for the purpose of bullying companies and individuals into buying more licenses. And it has the legal authority to file suit on behalf of its members.

I guess "ill informed" means "literate" to you, since you said, "crap like XP or ME". Unless you're running DOS or NT3.51, your unlicensed MS OS is "like XP or ME" 95, 98, and Me are almost identical, as are XP, 2000, and NT 4.
As for being young, I'd suspect you're the 17-year old, or younger, based on your poor writing skills: they make it very difficult to follow what you're saying. Try using complete sentences and the correct homophone. Also, questions end in question marks.

Do you mean the DEC Alpha produced by Compaq? They're making about 20 of those a year, right?
I'm familiar with the Alpha, I learned C on Redhat powered Alphas.
I've never tried programming in direct binary before. I would hazard a guess that that's quite difficult. But for somebody with the proper education and necessary thinking skills, a higher level language like C++ or Perl is not difficult. The most challenging part of anything I've written is the design phase; the rest is quite simple.

Where do you get your revisionistic, socialist history from? The expansion of the US economy due to the railroads was the fastest in history. It was so massive that the dollar suffered serious deflation. They might not have been very kind to their workers, and they engaged in price fixing, but their overall effect on the economy was very good. Of course, I never said anything about shooting, but it's nice of you to put words in my mouth for me.
In capitalism, we believe a person is due compensation from those who make use of his work. Those who use it without payment, or permission, are thieves. You can try to justify it by saying he's evil or the software isn't worth the money (the first one might be true, and the second one definitely is), but you're still stealing. Only people who feel guilty for their actions feel the need to justify them.

They spend more money on R&D, salaries, and marketing than they make. They lose billions per quarter on the X-Box, billions on CE/phones, billions on the server market, millions on cable tv, millions on MSN, etc. Really everything but Office and desktop Windows is a huge loss to them. When their server share starts contracting next year, and their desktop market contracts in 2005 or 2006, they'll be going down. The Clinton controlled SEC thought it was illegal. The Bush controlled SEC disagreed. (Coincidentally, billg gave dubya a very large campaign contribution). Had those little old ladies in Florida been able to figure out which hole went with Gore, MS would probably be in a much worse position right now with the DOJ.

I can find companies that don't pay the MS tax (www.penguincomputing.com and www.tuxtops.com are two). And you're wrong (yet again) about the agreement. A company only has to pay per machine if they want the bundled price (~$40 per box, I think). If they don't agree, they can still ship windows, but they pay more for it.

So you have no ethics whatsoever. Kidnapping (or worse), GTA, grand larceny.
I'd take a ride in his 959 if he offered it, but I'd never steal it.

Assuming they sell 50 million copies of a product (which they don't), that would be $37.5m in R&D, marketing, and overhead. They spent over $1b on advertising for the X-box. Their typical ad bills for their software is just as high. Granted they don't pay as much attention to R&D as they do marketing (which is why their products suck yet sell so well), but it's still a hell of a lot more than $40m per product.

Correction: you can make little sense of it. Just because it's too complex for you doesn't mean that others can't follow it.

Yep, you didn't get it.
If you wish to use the German occupation of France as an analogy. I would be the resistance: I don't give billg money, I don't use his products, I help make alternatives and talk people into using them.
You might not give him any money, but you perpetuate the stranglehold.
If you were to share movies of your car on a track, or a story you wrote with us, how would you post them? In a proprietary MS format, which means people who wish to view them have to use an MS product, so they don't use another. And it perpetuates the MS domination of computing.
How do you think you're resisting MS? Are you replacing their software with better products on other people's machines? Are you refusing to buy from companies like Dell, because they charge you for windows, when they ship something else? Are you actively supporting an alternate product as a developer, user, or tester? No? I didn't think so.

SpeedBump

I can't beleive I am getting into this but what the heck. There is a reason Windows and MACS dominate the desktop, especially for home users. Linux isn't built with my 80 year old Father and Mother in mind but AOL and windows games are. While you are obviously into computer OS and programming the vast majority of people just want to know if their software will run on it and can they get support on it.

My company produces a lot of software on different platforms and has for a long time from DOS (we still sell and develop a program written in assembly that is fastermore stable and more secure than anything else we sell) to UNIX (a dying program) to 16 bit Windows( another dying program but we still have people using it) to Linux (still not trusted or wanted by a lot of our client base because they don't have the techinical people to support it) to 32 Bit Windows ( by far the best seller). These products run on all sorts of server platforms as well including Lantastic, Novell, OS2, Unix, Linux, Windows NT4/2000/2003 using Microsoft SQL,Oracle,My SQl, Fox dbfs,Clipper dbfs even flat files as databases. I must have 1500 clients running thousands of users against Microsoft SQL server with no DBA's on hand that have no problems whatsoever since we set up all the maintenance for them to run automatically and email me the results. I hvae an NT4 server that has been running since I moved into my current office 3 + years ago running SP4 that hasn't been booted since we moved in.

I boot my Novell and Linux boxes more often than my Windows ones. I'd actually prefer to run OS2 for most of my stuff but IBM blew that one so I make most of my living on Windows and that is fine by me. Having a common OS makes programming traditional applications a heck of a lot easier.

Fire proof suit is now on flame away.

Ag951

Linux was built with stability, security, and efficiency in mind, not any people. Linux is a kernel.
Most Linux apps were not written with 80 year olds in mind, but then Porsches are not designed with 80 year olds in mind. Both are designed to assist the abilities of a skilled user. That's one of the things I like about both.
Windows is more like an AT daewoo: just about anybody can use it, but a skilled user will be handicapped (and it can't be trusted to run properly).
My parents used to run windows98. It crashed constantly. It wasn't consistent. It caught virii and worms. Now they run Debian GNU/Linux with KDE. Neither of them has root access. They haven't had a problem since. And neither of them has any problem with the KDE interface. KDE's usability is considered on par with windowsXP.

Also, GNU/Linux, according to some research firms, has a larger desktop market segment than apple. The reason windows dominates is the one Sid alluded to: almost every PC ships with windows.

If you have to reboot a Linux-based box, you need to learn how to administer it properly. According to Netcraft, the longest running boxes are BSD, with GNU/Linux in second. Most people running windows servers are not as lucky as you. A typical windows box has "scheduled maintenance". Thats when they shut it down every week to reclaim leaked memory and to avoid crashes.

I find it amusing that you refer to windows as a common platform. MS likes to push that FUD. They say that all the Linux distros are disparate systems, while in reality they're all binary compatible. Even BSD is binary compatible with Linux. And any program written for GNU/Linux should compile and run on any other POSIX compatible OS.
In windows there are at least three different, incompatible systems: 95, NT, and CE.
The only people who really benefit from the commonality are virus writers.

SidViscous

Less you think I disapeared I had to chime in. I had wintel box die on me, and Thursday I had the cash for a new mobo proc and decided to rebuild (AMD 2.2 + Mobo replacing my AMD 450 + mobo and the 450 replacing my 500 celeron and mobo (file server and audio server)) Took two day a day to recover and I spent today wrenching driving and drinking Guinii.

So anyways.

"The BSA exists solely for the purpose of bullying companies and individuals into buying more licenses. And it has the legal authority to file suit on behalf of its members. "

That's what they'd like you to believe, but all they can do is bully. Been there done that. The only thing to do with BSA letters is to toss them out.

"like XP or ME" 95, 98, and Me are almost identical, as are XP, 2000, and NT 4. "

Wrong 98 has much diffrernet licensing abilities. Why I don't use 2K


"I'd suspect you're the 17-year old, or younger, based on your poor writing skills: they make it very difficult to follow what you're saying. Try using complete sentences and the correct homophone. Also, questions end in question marks. "

Well you at least took my suggestion and went after my grammar. For your knowledge. I'm dyslexic and can't even comprehend grammar like you do. Having said that I have an ability to write fiction that you probably don't have. But the grammar bit takes a whole extra phase for me as well as an editor. I have a whole host of other defficiences, but some positives as well. On forums I tend not to take the time to make sure the grammar is perfect.

Do you mean the DEC Alpha produced by Compaq? They're making about "20 of those a year, right?"

More than that and they have to support those still running.

"The expansion of the US economy due to the railroads was the fastest in history."

Almost as fast as the .com expansion, but the .com fall wasn't as fast or hard as the collapse the railroad had either.

"Those who use it without payment, or permission, are thieves."

For instance taking a piece of software form someone and selling it to a company and making millions. At least I don't sell it like Uncle Bill did.

Guilty, sorry no I don't Maybe if Billie can't pay his phone bill or feed himself I might. I feel guilty about other things but not that.

":They spend more money on R&D, salaries, and marketing than they make."

Not true. They do loose much on things like X-box. But in the end they make more of OS's games, apps (office) and hardware then they loose. Hence the reason they have a lot of money in the bank. IF M$ hadn't made money in years they would be long gone by now.


I won't argue about the agreement of penguincomputing and the like. But that's like saying not everyone has to put gasoline/diesel in thier cars, there are alternatives (Bio diesel) but they are the 1%'ers.


:So you have no ethics whatsoever."

Only in dealing with those that have no ethics, fight fire with fire and all. Uncle Bill would do the same to me.

Can we forget the X-box here. It's not part of the discussion. Porsche doesn't factor in the price of their racing team to every car, it's secondary,. Different division that are essentially diffrerent companies. Micro$oft made a bad decesion with the X-box and it's loosing money. They EXPECTED it to loose money. Just like explorer. It's designed to hurt the competition rather than make money.

You would be the resistance? Your the passive Frenchman working in the factories hoping it will go away. Resistance is an ugly, messy business. Doing actuall damage and illegal things not sitting in a cafe playing nice.

"Are you replacing their software with better products on other people's machines?"

Yes as often as I can.

"Are you refusing to buy from companies like Dell"

Yes, since about 1994

"Are you actively supporting an alternate product as a developer, user, or tester?"

I'm not a developer so no there. But as a user and a tester. yes, very much so. And have for years.

Don't make blanket stements about people you don't know.

I just wish Zeta would get off the ball about the latest BeOS.


"Had those little old ladies in Florida been able to figure out which hole went with Gore, MS would probably be in a much worse position right now with the DOJ. "

And we'd be driving golf carts and Saddams sons would be running MS (Probably an improvement) I shudder to think what would have hapened with Gore at the helm during 9/11.

The great thing is that the current Dem field makes Gore almost look like he's a human and not the android from Mars that he is.

Oh yeah. And I just found out that Boston (hello mumbles) is going to close down North station to rail traffic during the democratic national convention. Now theres a way to **** off about a million or so hardcore democrats.

SidViscous

To the X-box point.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11077

Ag951

You can toss out a subpoena. But when they send the cops to escort you to court, you can't ignore it anymore. The BSA can and has filed suit before. Lawsuits are expensive, so they prefer to settle out of court, which is why they don't have many suits.

It'd be nice if you could follow the conversation. I did not say their licensing agreements are the same, I said the products. 98 and Me are mere upgrades to 95. As are XP and 2000 to NT4, although there was some significant work on the driver interface for 2000.

My brother-in-law is dyslexic. He can spell.
I actually preferred writing poetry to fiction: it has more passion and is more expressive.
I do take the time to watch my grammar as I type (It's quite easy to watch the letters appear on the screen as I push the keys). I consider it being considerate to the readers.

The dot-com expansion was nothing. It was a small drop in the bucket, compared to the railroads. Every industry was revolutionized by them. Think of what people thought the dot-com boom would do for business, the railroads did more than that.

Yup. And if billg hadn't paid for the software rights, before selling DOS, he'd be a thief. Or if you're referring to the similarities between Apple's Lisa and windows, don't forget that Apple invited him over and shared the technology with him.

If you can selectively apply your ethics, then you have none.

It is true.
1) they have more cash on hand than they report, so it's easy to fake the numbers.
2) they pay in stocks. They basically promise employees money based on expected future profits. So the money isn't actually outgoing, but if they don't keep expanding, they're screwed.

If "1%'ers" means upwards of 20% of the market, sure. Of course if you want to fight the power, sometimes you have to go with the alternatives. You don't think the French resistance you like to compare yourself to drove around in Mercedes and Volkswagens do you?

Perhaps you should look up passive in a dictionary. I don't use MS products. I don't pay for them. I avoid dealing with companies that use them (for security and reliability as much as for ethics). I actively support the FSF and produce GPL software. I don't take jobs that involve MS as a platform. I may not be RMS, but I'm a hell of a lot closer than you are. Resisting an evil government (like the German occupation) requires illegal acts, because the law itself is the wrongdoing. Resisting an unethical corporation does not.
People who actually know something about the software industry would point to people like RMS, ESR, Linus Torvalds, or Alan *** as leaders of the resistance. None of them uses illegal MS products.
Like I said, you grumble about it, but you still go on using it and perpetuating the cycle of dominance. Billg loves you.

Why not start with your own? You said you're using some form of windows (but not XP, 2000, or Me from what I gather). It's probably difficult to convince people to use an alternative, when you don't use it.

Then how are you using MS on your computer? MS hasn't released a single product for my Gentoo GNU/Linux boxes.

Take your own advice. My characterization was accurate, yours was not.

"Had those little old ladies in Florida been able to figure out which hole went with Gore, MS would probably be in a much worse position right now with the DOJ. "

My point wasn't the relative merits of Bush v. Gore, it was that the Clinton headed DOJ was much tougher on MS than the Bush DOJ (coincidentally billg and MS gave Bush money in 2000), and that Gore would have likely continued his predecessor's push.

User 462021

gotta love grown men bickering over such none sense...

SidViscous

I have yet to hear of the BSA going after anyone, certainly not individuals.



"It'd be nice if you could follow the conversation. I did not say their licensing agreements are the same, I said the products"

And it would be nice if you could follow. The original part about that thread was about the licensing of things like XP 2k and the like and how it puts all that information in documents and how M$ can track it down. When were we talking about drivers or upgrades.


Dyslexia comes in all flavors. I can't spell well but I read voraciously, something that most dyslexics don't.

I also can't look at the screen while I type. I touch type but have to look at the keyboard. And I already said that I can barely grasp most grammar rules even after being an English major (not graduated, but not bnecause of grades)

Yes your right it was (though the computer is much more pervasive than trains ever were) not my point once again. They were a monopoly and in fact were one of the major reasons (along with the steel industry) that brought about the anti monoply laws. And that the FALL of the train industry was faster and harder than the .coms.

http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html

That deal was shady to say the least.

"If you can selectively apply your ethics, then you have none."
Opinions are like A-holes, everyone has one and they all stink. Ethics are one of those things that can be argued form both sides until the Gateway cows come home.

POint being they have cash. Companies that loose money don't. M$ salaries are only partially in stocks, as most large computer companies do.

20% of the market? Please. Other than Apple I've never seen anything but Wintel sold in any computer store or major producer. Al's house of Linuk is not 20% of the market.


How is what your doing NOT passive. It's nothing but ignoring. If you want to cut out so much of your market, good luck with it. Personally I sell to anyone who wants it. I'm pretty sure Bill G doesn't even know who I am, much less loves me.


"Why not start with your own? " If I could do my job easily, and use the same equipment I already have I would. Hopefully the new BeOS will solve that problem. Any Idea how I can get my VPN to work on a non-MS platform?


"Then how are you using MS on your computer?" I also use non M$ product, I test non M$ product, and in fact I used to work for SUN, last I heard a non-M$ house there. And even they had employees using MS, laptops don't you know. Nowadays not using M$ is like not using roads paved with Asphalt, or using pwer that doesn't come from a Bechtel maunfactured power plant.

No your characterization was not accurate, how was it? You may not be 17 but that was meant to be humouros/insulting not a characterization.


Yeah I geuss Billy did give a lot to Bush

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/polit...ics000608.html

"Hedging its bets, Microsoft itself has staked out bipartisan territory in making campaign donations. The company has given $2.2 million in contributions this election cycle, a figure that is divided almost exactly between Democratic and Republican interests. "

SidViscous

PS

I've always wanted to develop a nice low slung efficient OS. And even talked to some people to do a project. Never pans out.

Not a programmer myself so I can't do it alone.