JJR512

Meh. I don't really like the way 18" wheels look on this car. In fact, just going by looks alone, I'd stick with 16" or even 15". But I'm willing to go to 17" because they don't look too out of place, and there are far more tire options in this size than for smaller wheels. But to me, 18" wheels just don't look right on this car. It's a mixing modern and classic clash, in my eye.

Van

I can't really give you a valid comparison, because I don't use any all-season tires on my cars - I use summer tires and winter tires.

On my DD, I've used both the Michelin PS2s and the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec. Both are fantastic summer tires that even stand up to track use without getting too greasy and fading away. Both are pretty darn good in the rain, too.

I've also used the Falken Azenis on a ChumpCar and have been happy with them. Another popular ChumpCar tire is the Rival (BFG, I think?).

I've never tried them in temps lower than 40F, but I'd assume that they'd suck.

I can tell you that for track rains (Hoosier H2Os) they are actually a softer compound than the track tires (R6), because they're designed to operate in lower temps. (But, if it dries out, and they start running hotter, they won't grip as well.)

Following this logic, a softer summer tire with an equivalent tread pattern to an all-season tire should perform better in the rain.

Tires grip the road in 3 ways: adhesion (think pink pencil eraser on a piece of glass); deformation (think softness that make an imprint of the textured surface of the road and "locks" into it); and abrasion (think "tearing" and leaving rubber molecules behind on the road - this is where the tread goes when tires wear - but this contributes less than adhesion and deformation).

In the rain, the liquid acts as a lubricant which greatly diminishes the 1st way, adhesion. So, really, you're primarily relying on deformation to create your grip with the road. And a softer tire - as long as it can channel the water away with the tread grooves - will give you better wet performance.

Paulyy

Id rather the 'Ultra High Performance' tyres. they're one or 2 down from what the direzza DZI / DZII
Those tyres you use are for enthusiastic driving but the tyres wont last long. I'll be going for nitto nto1 or direzza dzII for my spare wheels.
for the Ultra High Performance tyres, Tread wear is from 280-320 which is great! temperature rating is A and wet grip is rated AA (highest wet grip rating)
example tyres:
toyo T1r
falken fk452

I use these tyres for hill runs, spirited driving and every day driving. wet weather dry weather ect.

goatfarmerdave

I have RE-11's and they are fantastic in the rain

ninjacoco

I have the Dunlop Direzza Z2s on the 944 and my daily driver. Can't kill 'em with the light 944. The Lancer, however, nukes 'em quick, but I have fun, so who cares?

I've heard good things about some of the Continental all-seasons for rain, FWIW. I live in Texas, though, so nope. Summer tires. If they think it might be cold, they cancel stuff here. :lol:

JJR512

For those of you who run different tires in winter and summer, do you have two sets of wheels, or just one set that you get the tires taken off and the other set remounted?

The reason I ask is that in an article at Tire Rack reviewing winter tires, the best ones, Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 are available in no smaller than 18" diameter. Now, despite what I said earlier about 18" wheels on the 944, there are one or two that I do like enough to consider. But they're expensive, and I wouldn't be able to afford two sets of wheels.

On the other hand, how much would it cost to replace four tires with four different tires on the same wheels? (Naturally, the out-of-season tires that are removed would be kept to be reinstalled when it's their time of year once again.)

Van

I have 2 sets of rims for each of our street cars. For the winter tires, I use cheaper/knockoff/smaller rims.

Most places around me charge about $20 per tire for mounting an balancing.

Scott at Team Harco

There is absolutely no reason to consider a winter tire package in a size such as that for these cars. In fact, I would not consider going with a wheel larger than 16" for winter tires (on these cars). I can explain the dynamics of this if interested.

There are plenty of good winter tires available in 15" and 16" sizes. Just because Tire Rack says something is the "best" - does not make it best for all applications. Furthermore, they usually compare against a small set of other similar tires under relatively limited conditions. So take their recommendations for what they are worth.

To further offer my opinion on the matter - I have competed in ice racing and winter rallies for nearly 35 years. It has been my experience that the truly best winter tires available, to the general tire-buying public, are manufactured by Nokian (under the brand name Hakkapeliitta).

In fact, after many years of competition driving on Hakkas and other brands (Bridgestone Blizzak, Pirelli, Vredestein and Hankook to name a few) I became a "hobby dealer" for Nokian. I have customers that know how good these tires are and will not drive in the winter without their Nokians.

Do yourself a favor - get a set of Hakkas in 195/65R15 or 205/60R15 and put them on an inexpensive set of cookie cutters or phone dials and you'll be good to go for the next 7 or 8 winters. If you can't find Hakkas locally or get them shipped - contact me.

If you decide against Hakkas, there are still plenty of good winter tire options out there. Blizzaks have a solid reputation and perform well in winter conditions. Keep in mind, I choose Nokian (Hakka) because I am looking for any edge I can gain over my competition. They typically cost more - but they perform better and oddly enough, will last longer than most other brands. I don't know how they do it - but the lifespan of Nokians tend to be greater than other winter tires. I can go on with more personal experiences, but we'll save that for another day.

Scott at Team Harco

One more thing - I am with Van on this...

In my mind "all-season" is code for NO-season. These tires usually do nothing well and often they do everything poorly. The best answer is: (at least) two sets of wheels and tires. One for the warm weather (high performance summer) and one for the cold weather (dedicated winter).

If your winters are mild - a tire such as the Nokian WRG3 is the perfect second tire. It can take cold, wet, snow, slush, etc. and still hold up on those days when the sun comes out and the roads get warm.

JJR512

Please do explain.

Also please understand that while I understand what you're saying about the limitations of one source (Tire Rack) of testing, I did fully read the article, and after doing so, I felt that the class of tire being examined (performance winter) seemed like the best class for the winter conditions I'm likely to experience. There are other classes of tires that will do better in snow and ice, which would be great for people who experience much more snow and ice than I will, or if they might be racing on snow or ice. Where I live, the conditions will be snowy or icy for a few days every other week, on average, and when they are, I won't be racing, I'll be driving as carefully as possible.

Please don't interpret my last paragraph to mean I'm closed-minded to alternatives. I already showed I'm open minded; when I started this thread, all-season tires were all I was willing to consider, but I was educated by people who know more than I do about this stuff and I changed my mind. That's how I came to be reading that test in the first place. Now I am willing, and in fact eager, to go with separate sets of tires, but in the process of getting from all-season to separate sets, this class (performance winter, as reviewed in the Tire Rack article) is what I've settled on as seeming to be the best for me in my specific circumstances. But if you can show me why a different choice is better, please do so.

NC951guy

I use 17" Hankook V12 EVO's, 235 up front, 255 in the rear. In NC, where we get similar weather (not nearly as much snow though), they have been fine all the time. They're quiet in the dry, stick well when its raining and (although I don't drive it regularly in the snow) the 2 times I had to take the car out this winter, they were fine in snow as well.

Butters944

I LOVE my Kumho Ecsta 4x (aka KU22) tires. Have been running them a couple years.
225/45/17 and 245/40/17.

You can't beat the price, and I've been super impressed with performance. I did my first autocross last month on these tires and couldn't get them to chirp or break loose during some HARD (from my perspective) cornering. Did lock them up during braking once lol. In fact, after a rain storm I took my car out into an open parking lot and hooned around a bit, couldnt get them to break loose on wet road at 4k rpm in 2nd gear, steering wheel on full lock to one side lol.

They haven't lasted as long as I would've preferred but I'm running -2* camber all around so I wore out the edges fast.

For the money, I think hands down these are the best.

drive135mph

I highly recommend scooping up so a good set of summer tires and grabbing so cheap rims and winter tires.
My 944 with LSD and snow tires did as well as my friend's quattro Audi S3 in the snow. We ventured out during a few snowstorms, and even plowed through some unplowed, 1 foot deep, parking lots (at a actual 15mph but an indicated 90mph...but still!!) It rolled through like a champ.

Scott at Team Harco

No problem. Let me qualify most of my comments as they are based on true winter conditions. Not just an occasional snow storm where all traces disappear after two days.

Under such conditions a proper winter tire is very desirable if you want to be self sufficient. Additionally, there are a number of factors that I like to consider that are specific to winter tire choice.
1) What is the smallest diameter wheel that will clear the brakes? Also not too wide. (You will notice that Tire Rack understands this concept as well. They often recommend smaller diameter and narrower tires for winter use).
2) Once this is determined, decide what aspect ratio and section width will provide the best compromise with respect to overall tire diameter. If more than one size is available I will usually go with the one that is slightly larger in diameter than stock. This will provide additional ground clearance for deep snow. Though not too large to cause fender clearance issues.
3) In addition - a narrower tire will tend to cut through the snow or slush and provide better traction than a wider tire that may "float" on the snow/slush. The taller aspect ratio will provide more compliance and reduce the likelihood of sidewall damage on rough roads (a real issue here in Michigan).
4) Finally, cost. A set of smaller wheels and tires will be significantly less expensive than a larger one. As an example a 15" or 16" package will tend to be as much as $200 less than a comparable package in 17" or larger.

OK - that's how I choose my winter tires. It is also the same advice I give to most of my friends that live in this area. The questions usually then go to how much ice traction versus snow traction are you hoping to gain? There are tires that are better at one than the other (and vice versa).

For you - my recommendations are still similar. Look at the standard wheel package your vehicle was built with. If it's a base 944 - the choice is easy - stay with the 15 x 7 wheels and get a good "high performance winter tire". If the winters are mild, you may not need to worry about going much narrower, if at all (say 205). However, a little more aspect ratio might not hurt (again - keep in mind fender clearance). As I stated previously, I would not go larger than 16" for this type of application. A 205/60R15 or 205/55R16 should work well - again I am assuming this is for a 944. I use 195/65R15 winter tires on our 944s.

It seems you like Michelin. That's fine. They make some good tires. I can't suggest a specific model without doing more research. I can tell you that the Nokian WRG3 might be worth a look for your needs. They are offered in sizes that many manufacturers have decided are not worth producing. This is due to the fact that wheels have continued to grow in diameter over the past few years. There was a time when a 16" wheel was considered large. Now days, very few vehicles come with a tire option that small. 18", 19" and even 20" wheel and tire packages seem to be the norm. In general, this is for styling purposes more so than performance. In my opinion, the only real performance upgrade that is gained with the larger wheels is brake sizing.

Hopefully some of what I say here makes sense. I do take my tires very seriously. It's a bit more than just a hobby with me.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

JJR512

Most of what you say makes sense! and I'll ask about the one thing that doesn't in a moment.

First let me address what I quoted... I think that is the problem in a nutshell. Today's wheels are bigger so today's tires are bigger. There seem to be three generations of Michelin Pilot Alpin tires on Tire Rack. The oldest is available only in one size, for an 18" wheel, most likely because that's all they have left and it's the size nobody wanted. The next newest generation, the one prior to current, is available in four sizes, one 16", one 17", and two 18". Again, not being the current product, that's probably all they have left. The current generation is available in about 11 sizes for 18" to 20" wheels, and was probably never made for smaller wheels (I'm guessing).

The Tire Rack article didn't explicitly rank the tires in terms of 1st place, 2nd place, etc., but what seemed to me the obvious 2nd-place tire of the bunch, the Pirelli, is available in sizes down to 16".

Michelin does make winter tires for wheels as small as 14". They are in the "studless ice and snow" category and would probably not be good for my needs, as they would be far more optimized for true winter conditions that are more constant than what I'm likely to experience.

Now, what I don't understand from what you've said is why a smaller-diameter wheel and taller tire is better in winter conditions. I understand why a narrower tire is better, but given the same overall wheel/tire diameter, I don't understand why a smaller diameter wheel/taller tire is better in winter. I understand the trade offs in general, such as a short-sidewall tire can feel harsher, bigger wheels are more easily damaged, etc. But I don't understand what it is specifically about winter that makes a small diameter wheel/tall tire better in terms of performance or traction.