TurboTim

We would like to sell youthe kit(at $100 dollars off of the retail price) once it is complete and has proven itself but this is not a neccessity.


I meant to say $1000 off of the retail price.Sorry.

TurboTim

This is for those that are concerned with pricing......The supercharger we are using is close to $2000 and that is the wholesale price to us! This isnt a $350 Eaton core off of a Thunderbird. This is the real deal;^) This is the best SC on the market at this time and so the price reflects it. Hey we only sell the best so we have to pay the exorborant prices:^( Because of this price the basic kit is going to be up in the $3000-3500 range.

Considering what you get with the kit, this is a hell of a deal. Our profit margin will be very small but we hope to sell a gazillion of these things. Basically we intend to supercharge anything in our path from 911's to 928's. We are even going to put one on our companies 951! Its ready for boost with its low 8 to 1 compression ratio and this SC can make 825 horsepower at 20 psi.Now we would never be able to cram all that air in the engine but I am still sure the numbers would be spectacular.As a matter of fact we were even thinking about offering the turbo guys a kit to convert their cars to a supercharger.If anyone is wondering why in the hell would someone want to do that.....The answer is simplicity. Basically you could remove the entire turbo and all of its associated exhaust plumbing, wastegate, boost controller, etc..... and run a set of headers, straight exhaust, the SC and a pulley. As you can see it is a less complex system which gives you boost early(where the 951 is really lacking).Not only this but you could sell most of your turbo parts to offset the cost!

Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com

Mark944na86

So: If SC is so much simpler than TC engineering, can someone offer an opinion as to why it is that you never see car manufacturers offering SC performance versions of their models, but TC is commonplace?

Not being vexatious, genuinely curious.

-Mark 86 944 NA

ribs

GM offers a couple of supercharged models in their lineup...S/C regal, grand prix, and boneville are 3 that come to mind, NTM supercharged nissan frontier and the new AMG whatsitcalled3.2L M3 killer (or competitor).

Turbocharging does offer distinct advantages, such as:

It takes engergy to make energy. The energy of escaping exhaust gasses is otherwise wasted, but in a turbocharged car it is used to push more air into the motor, creating more air, creating more boost, creating more power, creating more air, etc. etc. until redline. A supercharged car uses the torque of the motor to drive a compressor instead of the exhaust gas, so instead of using wasted energy, it uses energy the motor is making, so your total power output on a s/c motor versus a turbocharged motor will be higher in the turbo motor because it is using energy that would be otherwise wasted instead of engery the car is trying to put to the ground, therefore is more efficient.

The reason a supercharger makes more sense for an n/a motor is: ease of install, much less complication in tubing, boost control doesn't need to be accounted for since it is a constant based on engine RPM as opposed to exhaust gas velocity and volume which can change with climate, engine temperment, etc., therefore the fuel curve can be more accurately rendered, reliability, and did I already say simplification of installation? While a turbo or s/c can be adapted to just about any motor, it comes down to a question of money, space, and ease of tuning. A supercharger wins in all of these categories unless you have millions to spend on research and development, in which case a turbocharger is usually more economical and beneficial for overall power output. Thats my opinion anyways.

Lamah

now I really need a job. I'd love to get the SC kit, however 3.5k is more then I currently have. I think I need a REAL good job REAL fast, cause I have no patience when it comes to stuff like this


btw: when i said value of my car, i meant because the previous owner got it keyed and the interior is kinda not so great. But I'm trying to get all that fixed anyways.

*Michael.*

You say the stage4 kit will make about 300hp at the flywheel and 225hp at the wheels...Is there really this much driveline loss in our cars??

TurboTim

20% drivetrain loss is very common on a stock 951.It could be more with a rubber centered clutch. I might have been a little overzealous in my flywheel estimate, though;^)

Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com

MadMax

Tim,
So you are saying that for ~$3000-3500 I can have my S2 put out ~315hp at the engine (conservative calculation)? with no loss in driveability and minimal loss in reliability?

The S2 has pretty grunt now, it would probably perform more like a flat-6 with the SC. I will have to seriously consider this after you develope the system.

Okay, no more playing around one of you San Diego, southern Cal types get off of your butt and take one for the team.

Regards,
Max-currently dreaming of being super-charged.

Matt O.

My guess is that the folks from Zuffenhausen always TURBO instead of supercharge because when you are crusing at 120+ that's when the Turbo is at it's best.

American cars are more into supercharging because we have always been more into drag racing, while the Europeans are more into high end, top speed, Le Mans... etc...

IMHO.

-Matt

Tabor

Mercedes and Jaguar both produce supercharged cars.

Matt O.

Isn't the Benz SC from an aftermarket company? And there is no autobahn in England.

-Matt

Tabor

I have been told that people travel at 120MPH+ in england, even through the speed limit is much lower.

Matt O.

I've been there a few times and there is too much traffic, at least near the major cities, to even think about going that fast. The bobbies will get you. I'm sure you can find places in America where you can go 120+ as well.

trebor_quitman

Aren't their some long isolated roads with unposted speed limits in Montanna and a few other states? Maybee Navada after dark? I believe the limits were lifted on some stretches after the feds made it state juristiction. I think Signs now say "Reasonable and Prudent". You can still get pulled over for going stupid fast but thats going to depend on the car your driving and the cop who pulls you over.

Bob, Waiting patiently on the facts before I plan my next road trip.

Matt O.

I know someone who has owned an 86 951 since it was brand new (I see him once a year and each time I beg him to sell it to me). He did the Montana thing at 140+ and a cop pulled him over. He said "Sir, this is a Porsche, 140+ is prudent" and the cop said have a good day. At least that's the story...

-M