Derek 951

New to a 944(turbo) and have a problem. There is water in the oil and I'm wondering where from. Naturally you would think head gasket, but I've heard that they rarely go out and it's usually the cooler seals. Could you check this by running a compression check, maybe? Kinda sorta? How hard is it to overhaul the oil cooler? I think its been run this way for a little while and wondering what else should be done? Thanks

Martin

More likely to be a head gasket as the 951 has an external oil cooler unlike the NA heat exchangers as far as I know.

fletch.

With a turbo, your probably looking at a head gasket faliure. how much water are we talking? can you see it on the stick?

IceShark

While that internal oil/water heat exchanger is gone from the turbo, the replacement arrangement can still leak and intermix, though nowhere near as easy as the old nightmare. There were a couple service bulletins out on water in oil on Turbos back in the early years.

Perry951 just had his apart on his ill fated engine rebuild - he should be able to explain it with a fresh memory.

In any event, the odds are definately higher with a turbo that it is a head gasket.

webberman

If you have been mixing for any length of time some say you should definitly replace your rod bearings. I had a nasty leak due to a turbo failure. Water was coming innto the pan through the turbo oil return line, how I haven't got a clue but it was. I replaced the turbo ran an oil system cleaner through it and changed the oil. I drove it gingerly for a couple days then went to Limerock for a DE where it spun a rod bearing on my first run.

I used the "opportunity" to stroke it to 2.8L

Perry 951

Jup... the ill fated rebuild has taught me many a thing.
The housing is still there on the turbos, and rather than the cooler element being there, there is a pipe that replaces it and has all the o-rings on it. There is also a water passage in the housing that is diverted by the cover. They can fail and mix everything together. However, I can't see a ton of water getting in there unless you explode the damn o-ring. Mine looked excellent with 125,000 on it.

Do a compression test. It might help. I would say it is a head gasket, and somewhat common on Turbos. I'd order up the oil cooler seal kit while you have the head off and you'll be set for another 100,000 miles. TIP... buy the tensioner assembly when you do the belts.. mine broke on the first crank after the rebuild and cost me 8 valves, $800 and a whole mess of headaches that I am still getting over. It is worth the 200 bones.. and you will know that the tension will be right on for another 10 years. Best O Luck.

Perry 951

Oh, and as far as the procedure... once you have the head off, there is like 6 10mm bolts that hold the cover on. Get all the lines off it and the pressure sender, then yank it out. Replace seals and torque to 10ft/lbs. (Some say 7, some sat 15, 10 is enough since it just needs to hold on.) Reattach lines (the outlet, curved one, is a bitch!!!!) and that is about it. Start her up (after the head stuff) and check for leaks. Prett simple once you get everything out of the way. If not doing the head job, you still have to remove the headers, and that aint fun!

Tom R.

I just had the o rings changed on my S2. Perry is dead on with his description.

I'm wondering if there is oil in the water is it o rings v. if ther is water in the oil it's a head gasket?

Is that oversimplifying the situation? Am I completely off base here? I'm a tinkerer that reads too much, and not a mechanic.

Also, when changing the o rings, we took off all the cooling hoses and ran a rod with a rag through them to clear the arteries. Sort of like an angioplasty by the heart of the ol motor.

IceShark

I've read some articles on that also.

When the cooler seals start to fail the logic goes that oil is running at 5 bar which is way above water pressure so you will first see oil in the coolant. Then as they fail a bit more, when you shut down the car, oil pressure goes to 0 but coolant pressure is high so you get the coolant into the oil.

Sounds reasonable. I don't know what the pressure of the oil is up at the head joint but I suspect that it is lower as it is about to exit the system and drain back down to the pan. So if one were to see coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant it would make sense that maybe the head is the cause, or the turbo.