blueblast

I'm considering moving from my 07 CS to a 944S2. Mainly looking for something different. There's nothing wrong with the CS, just have nostalgia for the late model 944s. My usage would be daily driver and track days. I've had an 06 CS (Tip), as well as currently racing a Lotus Elise. The only 911 that I've truly enjoyed driving is a 997 GT3, but don't want to put up $60k+ right now.

I've read Excellence's various articles on the 944 and its problems/issues to address when purchasing: cam and balance belts, seals, water pump, tensioner, motor mounts, along with the standard used car stuff (clutch, brakes, shocks, interior). Anything else I should consider?

One car of interest is here. (I'm partial to blue). Not a lot of info posted, so I've emailed the seller. Thoughts on price?

Thanks

odurandina

my 944 brothers are going to flame me big for saying this, but from the standpoint of fun, workability, long term improvability, etc, go 968. for the money i'd go 968. front engine Porsches basically cost anywhere from a lot to a ton of money to take down the road. outside of significant wrenching, and swapping in a lot of used parts, there's virtually no owner strategy for keeping a car around that's cheap. i wouldn't recommend getting a 944. In terms of purchase + sorting/driving, i estimate about 5~10 dollars go in for every dollar you get back *(the highest numbers being the range for 924s and 944Ts). and it's not just that these cars are going on 1/4 century old and way over on literally hundreds of worn out, crusty parts, bad fuel lines, aging brake lines, transmissions, torque tubes, etc.... the deal-breaker with the 944s are these ancient electrical systems leading to serious no-starts from hell (which in some cases are not easily resolved), and the colossal expense to change out a clutch, on top of the already high maintenance..... factored all in, the aggravation vs hp is simply off the scale, imo.... less so, with an S2... still, I would get a 968... let loose that variocam with straight pipes, and use up the engine. I believe in buying a car to keep it for many years which can be resolved by changing to V8 power after the engine explodes.... but before that happens, there are very few electrical issues (no, they're not coming either), clutches are easier to swap and the money in, money out ratios are clearly less awful. more reasons i'm a bit more positive about the 968 – is the *performance/power/value of the block for big engine builds – and that the cars are selling for stupid money these days compared to just 3 or 4 years ago (with prices appreciating at least 60~70% since about 2009). I went up to cars.com the other day, and there was only one. ONE 968 with a hard top and manual transmission for sale (a few years ago, there were 30~40 being offered at any given time). that should tell you what's going on..... with the 968, I estimate money in/money out improves to about 2.5~4 to 1.

still, the best money you can spend these days is probably on a used 996, 993, 964 or Cayman.

I figure ratios vary from about 1.5 to 3 dollars in for every dollar back.


*(despite being just a bit on the heavy side, you can reduce the weight significantly,
with seat deletes/swaps and exhaust mods).

i'm sorry to paint such a somber opinion of the 944. 944s and S2s are very nice.... but I've seen very few cars where $$$ cataclysms stemming from ill advised projects gone bad are so utterly commonplace – as with the 944. however, if you're going to the track, the S2 is easier to get into and worth a second look.... and of course, with any 944, straight to V8 power = game over.


still, to be fair, i'm more than a bit biased.

.

trirod01

The price seems fair, based on the limited information available. You'll need to know when the timing belt, rollers, water pump were last replaced and when the clutch was last done - assuming it's not original.

One thing to bear in mind, especially if it's going to see reasonably heavy track use, is that this is a 22 year old car now. Often these are on their original bushings and shocks. These last pretty well, but you would likely want to do some serious suspension maintenance and upgrades if it is still all original, and you would likely budget a couple of grand for that. I would definitely pay a pretty decent premium for an S2 that had had a lot of this work done recently, knowing first hand just how much that costs.

J Berk

An S2 can be a very fun car provided it is properly maintained.

I have had mine for roughly 8years and a total, all-in investment of about $17k to date.
That includes both repairs and regular maintenance.

I bought it 'cheap' at $5k and spent the majority of the $12k remainder in the first 3years of ownership getting the car up to snuf and doing some upgrades like koni adjustable shocks/struts

since then, costs have been low and the car has been very reliable. I don't daily drive it but I do drive it every weekend and do an occasional DE with it.
Got it with 180k miles on the clock and now it is showing 209k.

If I were to sell, it would likely fetch not much more than $7500 but I have no intention of parting with it as I love driving it both on the road and the track.

Hope that provides you with some data points on your search.

blueblast

First, thanks for the responses, especially from such long time owners and contributors. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experiences.

I was not aware of the electrical problems on the 944. While the 968 does not have the same visual appeal to me, if it's generally more reliable that's certainly huge plus: I'm looking more for reliable, maintainable DD/DE rather than a project (just don't have the time anymore for wrenching every weekend). I'll continue the research, and talking with community members.

Thanks again,

Arominus

There is very little difference between the 968 and 944 electrically, its mainly a function of age. All late 944 and 968's share a lot of components. Don't be scared to get an S2, its an awesome car, the 968 engine is better though, more power, rev's higher and revs faster. You really can't go wrong either way.

You can always cheat too, the 968 motor swaps into the S2 pretty well and is a quick ride. My dad did this to his 89 s2 when the motor went south. Puts my 944S to shame.

turbodave

Most electrical problems on any of the 944/951 cars (of any year) are usually directly related to neglect, installing inferior aftermarket parts or hacking up the wiring system. You cannot run a 800 watt stereo system and DC-10 landing lights for head lights and expect the 25+ year old stock system to handle it. The 968 is no exception. It runs the same gauge wiring, relays and everything else that was applied to the '85.5 and later cars (CES) with only slight differences. Some folks think that throwing a V-8 at a Porsche is the end all to all things problematic to the 944/968 series. I tend to disagree.

J Berk

Had to re-read Odur's post to see the reference to electrical issues.

With all due respect to Odur...I don't think the 944/68 has any more or less electrical issues than any other 20yr old car.

I have had 1 issue in total between two 944's and about 15 years of ownership. It was related to the factory alarm and did cause a no-start (that's what it is supposed to do). Had I paid more attention there is a quick jumper fix to allow the car to start that can be found here on RL....and my mechanic was easily able to fix the problem.

I would NOT allow "electrical issues" to scare you away....get a PPI and buy the right car.

gtroth

You seem to be passionate about Porsches and you like the 944, so try one while you can. Really. Don't miss out. They are all getting old.
The one you linked looks like a pretty good example to me. Price might be a little high for the miles, but it's not unreasonable I'd say. Value might come down to how good the clutch is.
Good luck!

mytrplseven

The good thing about repairs, mechanical or electrical, they can be done by anyone who's a half-way decent "wrench" and doesn't mind working on his own car. Having owned an '07 Cayman S, I would have to say that repairs on it would tend to be much more expensive and a lot of the servicing and repairs would be more likely to be handled by an up to speed or dealership shop. To me that translates to a lot-o-bucks. I've been working on my 3rd 944 and wil all the work I've done, I've only spent about 2 grand on repairs/preventative maintenance or upgrades (not including the '06 Cayman wheels and BFG tires I changed to). I did a lot of shopping on ebay and craigslist every day to keep the price down on parts and in the process, save nearly 2 grand.

I do miss the Cayman, though. It was easily the finest car I've ever driven or owned.

J Berk

I had not seen the link before either (I must be getting old!)....

That is a nice example of a 1991 S2. Appears to be a straight body with original paint and a clean interior.

I agree with gtroth....if it has a recent clutch and T-belt, and timing chain tensioner....it's an $8k to $9k car.

If not...depending upon which of those things it needs...it could be a $6k car (if it has had none of those things).

Rough values including shop labor (others may have more recent $ amounts)

Clutch job - $1500
T-chain tensioner and new chain - $800
T-belt + Waterpump - $700 (if you buy the OEM waterpump...about $400 if you buy the cheap one)