stupenal

Hey everyone! Now that I've finally got enough cash to get my 944, I must decide which one. So thus, I'd like to compile a list of the pros and cons of each model (excluding 924 and 968). If you guys could just add to my list that'd be great!

1. 83-85 944na

Pros:
a. Lighter, faster
b. Many come with Fuchs (i personally don't like the black color though)
c. easier to come by
d. cheaper

Cons:
a. old style 924 dash
b. Porsche rushed the development...thus first owners were sort of guinea pigs
c. i don't like the cookies and fuchs


2. 85.5-88 944na
Pros:
a. updated dash (from 928 i think?)
b. phone dials aren't black
c. 87 and older have updated offset so I can easily switch to c2 wheels
d. more aluminum parts and updated suspension
e. automatic belt tensioner

Cons:
a. heavier and thus slower
b. phone dials arent as strong and are heavier
c. higher price


3. 944S 16 valve
Pros:
a. more hp and faster

Cons:
a. more rare
b. more maintenance
c. increase in performance not that noticable

4. 89 944
Pros:
a. updated 2.7L engine with more hp (158 i think?)
b. by now, most of the early mistakes have been corrected

Cons:
a. hard to find
b. very very heavy
c. much pricier than the 2.5L

5. 86-89 951 and 951 S
Pros:
a. hella fast
b. easily modifiable
c. beautiful nose and rear valence for added stability
d. can easily burn up any modern car yet still look good
e. better tranny, suspension, clutch, and other engine components

Cons:
a. insurance (i'm only 17)
b. maintenance (wow....)
c. more expensive by like 4k


6. 944s2 (89-91)
Pros:
a. available in cab
b. 200 hp without turbo lag
c. beautiful nose
d. all that of a turbo but without the maintenance issue

Cons:
a. hard to come by
b. cab is really really expensive
c. I dont think many ppl here are owners, so not as much help
d. by the way, are any of the maintenance issues different than the 944na?


Anyways, i'm currently looking at a 84 944 that is beautiful on the exterior and very well taken care of. 166k miles asking 4k.

Another is a 89 944s2, also very beautiful and asking only 6700! Still havent gotten a reply from him on details. SO, hopefully you guys can help me choose which model you think is the best. Feel free to add as much as you want, I love learning about these cars.

Black_951

Where is the guy asking 6700 for the s2? If you decide not to buy it please forward his email to me.

As far as which one to get, I would get the car you can find in the best condition and most maintenance history. I would say anything from 87 - on. S2's are very nice and almost as quick stock as the turbo, if not quicker in daily driving.

stupenal

http://www.8op.com/kayf/porsche.html

that's the websight with his car pictures. The color is kinda funky. Anyways, he's asking 6700, email is hayko@kayf.com This is located in southern california (ah...i love this place!).

deni durrell

you have a lot of this covered pretty well, except that for most of the "more maintenance" thing for certain cars is BS. All cars require more or less the same type of maintenance, so it will be balanced between all of them, in terms of cash outlay (or time, if you are doing everything yourself).

furthermore, you have to understand that the development cycles didn't vary too much and that "mistakes" that were made sometimes, *never* got fixed (a lack of "new product development" occured during the 80s - they were SCRAPING by in a ****ty economy, doing what they could to keep from going bakrupt or worse bought by VW-Audi or Daimler-Benz). you are also incorrect in saying that the 83-85 cars were "rushed" and "sort of guinea pigs", becuase they weren't. that was reserved for the 924, which came out LONG before the 944 (1975). most of the 944s are mostly based on the 924, up until the 968, the "S3", but by then it was too late, and this model was only on the market for 3 yrs. the cars that were manufactured pre-1990 were all made in the same place (Neckarsulm, W. Germany) at the Audi plant.

I think the most important aspects in choosing one are:

a.) finding the "best" example of any of the models you *personally* prefer the most - for whatever reason, from nose style, or wheel or wheel offset you prefer, or even the interior

b.) having a certain set amount that you can afford for the given car you want

c.) understanding that you may still have issues with the car even after doing all your research in finding that certain "issues" were taken care of, but weren't (i.e., automatic tensioners don't always work right) - we have *all* spent $2-3k *after* we bought the car (i got mine for $3500 and have spent $3000 since April/May)

Do a lot of research; read the FAQs; pick up that book by Peter Morgan (Original 924/944/968 by mbi publishing <-- STRONGLY advised)... understanding a lot about what this guy says will dispel any myths.

get what you can afford! - the rarest ones are the 1991 944 Turbo Cabriolet or 968 Turbo S- all others can be had for pennies, if not here, then in other places in the world (like Germany)...!

Dave

85.5-88 needs to be broken down further, to 85.5-86, and 87-88.

85.5-86; New interior, new suspension, phone dials, old offset (spacers for newer wheels)150 HP, lightest of all 944s made.

87-88; same interior as above, phone dials in new offset, 158 HP due to increase in compression, weight increased.

I will agree with the statement that even a good example may have a few suprises, so buy the best example you can while keeping a couple grand in reserve. $6700 for an S2 scares me, does it run?

PaulK

stupenal - Having teenage drivers myself as a "Dad," and having been through one complete total (rollover) by a teenage driver, and surviving, take it from me, you might consider the older lower powered, but post 85.5 models as an entry, specifically because of insurance and your learning curve as a new driver. Tip: Wear your belt at all times, even in parking lots!!!!

Be careful. You don't have much experience behind the wheel, and any of these cars can quickly get you in trouble. Take D.E. as soon as you hit 18. Learn everything you can about the theory of driving.

Don't listen to the yahoos in Mustang 5.0s about how fast they were hauling ***..around blind curves at night, one hand on the wheel, the other adjusting their amp for maximum bass effect from the Rockfords in the trunk..they have a limited half life if they are doing that. They (and you) have limited skills you can only get through experience in real world driving. No skill = disaster at any speed, especially higher ones!

Picture this. Your tooling in your 944 at speed on a highway. You are following a pickup truck. The bozo in the pickup has firewood stacked up on his truck. He hits a bump, and three logs roll off, coming right at you. They are 8" in diameter, you have 4" of ground clearance. What do you do? Brake, and the tractor trailer on your butt hits you. Swerve, and the SUV next to you can't. Hit them, and you might flip. Answer: Don't be behind the idiot in the first place! You should have seen the firewood, figured it was a disaster waiting to happen, evaluated the danger, and scooted past him and not hung in behind him. All in less than 1/2 second. Drive with active safety...

Now that I got that off my chest, I recommend an older, post 85.5....no reservations. I would concentrate on a clean, 86 or 87. The prices have hit bottom on these and people selling them are willing to bargain. (I sold one recently, take it from me, you are really happy to see ANY buyer, much less get your price.) Maintenance records are the key. If they have a big stack of them, it really makes a difference. What is potentially disasterous is the 944 on a lot with no documentation.

Normally aspirated cars do have lower operating costs, in the total life cycle, than a turbo. Turbo units are replacement items, like it or not. They live in a very tough environment and have a limited life. I know of very few older turbos that have had major work; it is hard to find a single component on the normal cars that have the same level of costs associated with a single component, recognizing the rest of the cars are about the same.

TimC

S -

All the above, and be sure to have your prospective car checked by a Porsche mechanic/shop. This should cost around $50-$100 (often 1 hour labor as a baseline) but is well worth it. They can check for hidden damage, evidence of wrecks (look for suspension pieces newer/cleaner than rest of car, for example), anything obviously wrong, recommended updates (power steering hose is one that leaps to mind, though I don't recall exactly what was wrong with the original one), and thereby potentially save you from a Fright Pig.

And PaulK is right. My idiot friend in HS took his dad's Mustang to the prom. Showing off the car's "handling" he spun it, hit curbs, blew out tires, etc. Oops. The point is not that one car or another is easier to get out of shape in (though this is of course true) - the point is to know your mount and its limits, and how it will react in various situations, before you have to experiment at speed without time to think about what's happening. The good thing about the 944 series is you can get out of a lot more than many other cars, and I certainly consider driving one much safer than almost anything out there. I do drive aggressively, but I look at how I used to drive in my Civic, and I can't believe how little reserve I was actually operating with. Now I drive friends' cars and am afraid to go over 80.

Munchies for thought.
T

Michael Stephenson

As an S2 owner I would like to add that there are a few maintenance issues, namely the cam chain and the cam chain tensioner. Also, the plug wires are very expensive because of the special Beru connectors that are required to reach through the cam cover. These also apply to the 944S.

One of my fellow 944 cohorts refers to my car as the luxury 944, and I think he is right. It is a very understated machine. The S2 has a respectable amount of power that differs from the Turbo models in that it is very smooth and consistent. If you are an inexperienced driver, this can be a good thing because there are no surprises in the acceleration curve.

Also, the S2 has the same 4 piston Brembo ABS brakes of the Turbo. Brakes are real important and ABS can really save your rump in emergency street situations. When buying a car, never overlook the condition of the brakes.

The price you mentioned for the S2 is a steal. Even if it needs $4K’s worth of work to make it right, it would still be a good value.

Roy LaZelle

I love my S2, however any of these cars can have expensive dammage in the battery box area.... which my S2 had and I have paid to fix. Grab flashlight and stick your head under the dash on the passangers side and take a look for rusty streaks and water dammage. If you see anything (!), pull the battery and look for holes. It dosn't take much of a rub from the battery corner for an H20/Acid drip to get under the paint/sealer.

Cobbs

Certain parts cost for the pre 85.5 cars is considerably less than the later models. This is partly due to the sharing of more parts with the 924.

Pre 85.5 control arms $25 - $45
ball joint $15

Post 85.5 control arms Rebuilt with ball joint $250 - infinity

With that said I still would get a post 85.5 car as it seems the front suspension is more robust and less suseptible to shimmy Among other improvements.

adrial

PaulK, I gotta step up and defend teenage drivers.


I'm 17 and I drive an '89 951. I have had my license for over a year...so this is my second car and I have already had one minor accident (not long after I got my license...so I've been accident free for a year and a month). That one accident did wake me up...ya gotta pay attention...and never just say screw it...cause you may think nothing will happen...but if something by chance does happen...look at the results..

Common sense while driving is definetely not something that can be taught. Talk is one thing, show is another and experience is the best teacher unfortunately. Another thing is maturity...I've heard people at school laughing about flipping their cars. They're idiots IMO. One of them actually had a wood box of a couple 10 or 12" subs come within 5" of his head in a rollover. And he laughed about it...sure it's a great way to relieve stress and such but I just hope that they learned their lesson.

Anyway..When I got the car I immediately had respect for it's potential and I never pushed the car's handling, I still haven't pushed the car's handling. Again because of the results...any idiot can handle understeer...but I have had limited practice with oversteer and the street is NOT the place to learn to handle it. This is why I'll be joining PCA and doing a DE when I turn 18 in 6 months. What I'm saying is that for a very first car...a 951 is not what someone should get, no. IMHO a teen's first car should be a POS. Mine was an '86 Toyota Camry with 128k miles. It's now up to about 137k miles or so.

So basically...every teen is different...and each has to be treated differently. I think that a crappy car for at least the first year of driving is a must. Afterall...What's the fastest the driver ever accelerated before they got behind the wheel? 0-30 on their pedal power bike? It SHOULD be an awesome step up to go from nothing to a car, period.

I rambled

anyway, back to what you should get (the poster).
I love the kick of a turbo...but would love some more low end power. My advise would be to drive a turbo and an S2 (not a cab! IMO a roof is valuable!). If you have the money I see no reason to go with an N/A car. If this is your first car I'd recommend a POS, cause nobody wants to see you mangle a beautiful 944!

Good luck...and where do you live? I'm in NY.

Black_951

Oh yes. My future children will drive economical and safe small cars until they can afford to buy their own.

Not only did I go through many POS cars before settling with Porsche I STILL keep that rusted out '81 Toyota Pick-Up on standby and drive it weekly to remind me where I came up from and keep my ego in check.

icat

OK, here's my 2 cents (you may want to give change when I'm through). My first Porsche was an 83 944. Paid $3750 for it in 93. It was a POS, but I had to have a Porsche. Spent $7500 on it in two years and still had a POS. Got smart and found an 86 951 for $10200 in 97. It was in near perfect condition with 68k on the clock. Spent ZERO on the car for two years! Drove it almost every day.
Point is, be prepared to drop some bucks on ANY POS - Turbo or not - Porsche or not. It was far less expensive for me to buy the 951 in great shape and pay a premium, than it was to save some bucks up front with the na944.

Craig944

I like the '83's because alot of stuff is more primative, thus easier to work with. Example: My heater vent staying open was fixed just by moving a lever under the engine comopartment. With later models it would be alot of other stuff w/ the fuse box. I just like my car better than anyone elses hehehe. I'm biast as hell.

Tabor

Agreed. But it is easier to get a later model(85.5-95) car to idle correctly.