Alright... 95% sure I'll take the TEC-II Plunge
01-17-2002, 12:36 PM
#16
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please, please don't take offense, but the answer seems simple. $1100.00 for the SDS.
$2900.00 for visualizing the timing as curves
seems to be somewhat steep. Again, I wish you success with your goal of a drivable 330rwhp no matter how you get there, this is just my 2 cents and you know what
they say about free advice.
The TEC is only $1999.Not much more then the SDS for a far more advanced system.Its got an auto-tune feature that dials in your air/fuel ratios! We would actually give Perry an even further discount then that since he has purchased from us before.The other expenses that bring it up to close to $4000 are injectors, an adaptor set-up to run the GM sensors(and yes the SDS needs the same type of adaptor system to install it on a 944, 951, 968, 911,etc....),intake pipe for the turbo, new blow-off valve that doesnt hang open at idle, dyno tuning, etc.....Add all of these things to the $1199 price of the SDS and it will come out to be much more money then $1199.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforeracing.com
$2900.00 for visualizing the timing as curves
seems to be somewhat steep. Again, I wish you success with your goal of a drivable 330rwhp no matter how you get there, this is just my 2 cents and you know what
they say about free advice.
The TEC is only $1999.Not much more then the SDS for a far more advanced system.Its got an auto-tune feature that dials in your air/fuel ratios! We would actually give Perry an even further discount then that since he has purchased from us before.The other expenses that bring it up to close to $4000 are injectors, an adaptor set-up to run the GM sensors(and yes the SDS needs the same type of adaptor system to install it on a 944, 951, 968, 911,etc....),intake pipe for the turbo, new blow-off valve that doesnt hang open at idle, dyno tuning, etc.....Add all of these things to the $1199 price of the SDS and it will come out to be much more money then $1199.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforeracing.com
01-17-2002, 12:58 PM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I forgot to mention that the Dyno is where all other systems will be left behind the TEC! I can tune the TEC in roughly 1 to 2 hours on the dyno. I have done it on numerous occasions. I have helped people dial in their TEC's on the phone while they are at the dyno! Try to get customer support like that from any stand-alone engine distributor. I can say that it will probably not happen! I know for a fact that shops such as Huntley Racing have taken hundreds of dyno runs(days of tuning) to tune a system such as the Wolf 3-D(and this was with some nice Windows software) on the dyno. Even after all that, the only car they did had flat spots in the midrange, surging, etc.....I dont know how much dyno time is in your area but out here it is $200 for the first hour and $125 each additional hour!
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
01-17-2002, 01:57 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Crofton, MD
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by bs:
<STRONG>hey ribs:
in looking at the pics of your friends pc-in-car installation, i noticed he's using a standard 120VAC power supply. As someone who has spent many months in the past trying to make a sophisticated PC based data acquisition system run off 12VDC i'm interested to know how he got that to work... most automotive inverters give you square wave AC (as opposed to sine wave) which will wreak havoc on all kinds of electronics, even stuff not connected to it. (square wave => high frequency noise). Any idea how he hooked it up??</STRONG>
<STRONG>hey ribs:
in looking at the pics of your friends pc-in-car installation, i noticed he's using a standard 120VAC power supply. As someone who has spent many months in the past trying to make a sophisticated PC based data acquisition system run off 12VDC i'm interested to know how he got that to work... most automotive inverters give you square wave AC (as opposed to sine wave) which will wreak havoc on all kinds of electronics, even stuff not connected to it. (square wave => high frequency noise). Any idea how he hooked it up??</STRONG>
01-17-2002, 02:22 PM
#20
Drifting
So, Tim, what we are saying is that the $4000.00 will get you a turn-key TEC II system + tuning?
I am also contemplating stand-alone engine management in the next 9 months, but I wouldn't be anywhere near enough for you to tune it...
I am also contemplating stand-alone engine management in the next 9 months, but I wouldn't be anywhere near enough for you to tune it...
01-17-2002, 04:47 PM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have looked into both systems since this thread got going. It is $800 and change for the SDS, $1200 for the TEC-II. Both need injectors, both need custom trigger wheels and pickup mounts, both need the TPS and modified throttle body, both need to be wired, both need (or should) have a diffrent pop off valve, both need some sort of air inatke for the turbo... that is where the cost comes up real fast!
To adapt the SDS to be a good fitting system, and look and perform like it should be there would cost quite a bit of cash, and the headaches of creating all that crap. In the end.. I figured the SDS would be in about $2800 and a month of fabrication work to get the mounts, wires, and sensors right.
$4000 for the TEC-II that bolts in after 3 hours of work, learns the system enough to drive it (carefully) to a dyno, then gives you the ability to fine tune every input and output of the system.
Thinks like knock sensor sensativity, 3 or 4 stages of fuel enrichment for temperature compensation, and a million other things can be programmed to do exactly what I want. I don't feel, personally, the SDS can provide tuning to that level.
Having blown my wad... it is a pretty good chance I will need to stick with the setup I have and a big turbo for a while until I can create some more cash flow. Both systems are above the price I am willing to spend at the moment.
I still encourage this topic to keep going. There are some people on this board that use the SDS system, but don't say much bout it. "It works, it's powerful" dosn't cut it for me. I want to know exactly what it can do. As for the TEC-II, I have the 78 page manual, read it cover to cover 4 times now. It is impressive.
To adapt the SDS to be a good fitting system, and look and perform like it should be there would cost quite a bit of cash, and the headaches of creating all that crap. In the end.. I figured the SDS would be in about $2800 and a month of fabrication work to get the mounts, wires, and sensors right.
$4000 for the TEC-II that bolts in after 3 hours of work, learns the system enough to drive it (carefully) to a dyno, then gives you the ability to fine tune every input and output of the system.
Thinks like knock sensor sensativity, 3 or 4 stages of fuel enrichment for temperature compensation, and a million other things can be programmed to do exactly what I want. I don't feel, personally, the SDS can provide tuning to that level.
Having blown my wad... it is a pretty good chance I will need to stick with the setup I have and a big turbo for a while until I can create some more cash flow. Both systems are above the price I am willing to spend at the moment.
I still encourage this topic to keep going. There are some people on this board that use the SDS system, but don't say much bout it. "It works, it's powerful" dosn't cut it for me. I want to know exactly what it can do. As for the TEC-II, I have the 78 page manual, read it cover to cover 4 times now. It is impressive.
01-17-2002, 05:29 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, has there ever been an attempt to twin turbo a 944T? I guess the stock turbo could worak as the small one and then a big kokeln or huntley turbo could be the larger one. This is next to impossible;right? Would'nt it need a new head design at the least?
01-17-2002, 06:54 PM
#23
Drifting
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the spirit of keeping the topic going, there's a couple of things I'd like to point out. One, The SDS system does allow you to program in knock sensitivity. I'm not sure what the 3-4 stages of fuel enrichmment for temp. compensation is, but the SDS system has 32 points to establish fuel enrichment vs. engine (water) temp. and automatically adjusts for intake temp.
My laundry list for my SDS install totals $1275.00 w/o injectors and the "dyno" is right outside.
My laundry list for my SDS install totals $1275.00 w/o injectors and the "dyno" is right outside.
01-17-2002, 10:15 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
You can get the manuals at: www.electromitve-inc.com and they are in PDF.
While were at there has been no mention of the Tec 3 in this thread. At the moment it looks like one of Microsofts vapor ware items. However, when it gets here it will be a very nice piece of equipment. It will be capable of true sequential injection among several oher features not found in the Tec 2. But you will pay for what you get ;-)
Alan
While were at there has been no mention of the Tec 3 in this thread. At the moment it looks like one of Microsofts vapor ware items. However, when it gets here it will be a very nice piece of equipment. It will be capable of true sequential injection among several oher features not found in the Tec 2. But you will pay for what you get ;-)
Alan
01-17-2002, 10:26 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Sorry,
I fat fingered the address. Should have read: http://www.electromotive-inc.com/download.htm
This will take you to a site which asks for some info on yourself. You can put in bogus info if you want. The next screen is where you can download the software and get the PDF manual.
Alan
I fat fingered the address. Should have read: http://www.electromotive-inc.com/download.htm
This will take you to a site which asks for some info on yourself. You can put in bogus info if you want. The next screen is where you can download the software and get the PDF manual.
Alan
01-18-2002, 02:34 AM
#27
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to know where you can get Tec-II's for $1299.We are paying more then that and we are a dealer that gets jobber pricing! Hook us up;^) I know they used to be $1299 but that is pre Windows TEC units. Once they started using Windows software, they raised the price.
BTW, the TEC also has knock sensor sensitivity adjustment,the rate at which timing is retarded,the rate at which timing is brought back up,etc.....It has numerous ways to add acceleration enrichment(MAP,TPS,TPS/MAP blend), open and closed loop EGO with parameters that you set to control how fast or slow the TEC reads the O2 sensor voltage, the sample rate at which it reads, the percentage of the EGO is uses to make adjustments. It has optionl outputs that control nitrous, turbo boost, traction control, fans, etc....It has the ability to fire in batch or semi-sequential. You can datalog for upto 24 hours on one file(I hope you have enough hard drive space). There are various cold start and warm-up enrichments as well as full idle stabilizer control.It also has two stage rev limiting, decelleration enrichments, as well as letting you control TOG, injector offset time, minimum injector turn-on time and quite a few more nifty features that most people probably dont understand anyways;^) You can also wire it into your dash warning light and it will flash off fault codes if a sensor goes kaput(as well as a sensor failure or intermittent failure mode for each snesor, in the monitor screen). You can also make changes to timing and fuel on the fly with your laptop. The monitor allows you access to every function of the engine as well as making more changes to parameters while on the fly. There are even more features then this. I just touched the surface:^)
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
BTW, the TEC also has knock sensor sensitivity adjustment,the rate at which timing is retarded,the rate at which timing is brought back up,etc.....It has numerous ways to add acceleration enrichment(MAP,TPS,TPS/MAP blend), open and closed loop EGO with parameters that you set to control how fast or slow the TEC reads the O2 sensor voltage, the sample rate at which it reads, the percentage of the EGO is uses to make adjustments. It has optionl outputs that control nitrous, turbo boost, traction control, fans, etc....It has the ability to fire in batch or semi-sequential. You can datalog for upto 24 hours on one file(I hope you have enough hard drive space). There are various cold start and warm-up enrichments as well as full idle stabilizer control.It also has two stage rev limiting, decelleration enrichments, as well as letting you control TOG, injector offset time, minimum injector turn-on time and quite a few more nifty features that most people probably dont understand anyways;^) You can also wire it into your dash warning light and it will flash off fault codes if a sensor goes kaput(as well as a sensor failure or intermittent failure mode for each snesor, in the monitor screen). You can also make changes to timing and fuel on the fly with your laptop. The monitor allows you access to every function of the engine as well as making more changes to parameters while on the fly. There are even more features then this. I just touched the surface:^)
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
01-18-2002, 11:36 AM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Tim -
There is a speed shop in Cincy that is going out of buisness. They have 2 TEC-2 kits to sell off. I asked a price.. $1699... $1200 cash. They might be stolen, they might not be. There is a reason they are going out of buisness!
However... for that price I was (an still am to a point) thinking of getting one.
It is still a lot of jack to spend!!
There is a speed shop in Cincy that is going out of buisness. They have 2 TEC-2 kits to sell off. I asked a price.. $1699... $1200 cash. They might be stolen, they might not be. There is a reason they are going out of buisness!
However... for that price I was (an still am to a point) thinking of getting one.
It is still a lot of jack to spend!!
