jman944

Ok, first the 83' 944 N/A engine:
2.5L
150hp @ 5800rpm (est.)
(Couldn't find the torque)

Now my buddies 88' M3 has a bit more power:
2.3L
192hp @ 6750 (est.)
170ft/lbs. @ 4750rpm (est.)

Probably the same weight (around 2500 - 2600lbs)

Now, without buying another car and just working with what I have, is it possible to perform any sort of modifications to hang with his car at all? In turns it's quite even, but on the straight-a-ways he pulls away pretty hard.

Any thoughts?

keith

Give up.

(sorry.)

John.

Install a turbocharger or a supercharger in your car! It has been done successfully in the past!

Z-Engineering makes quite an interesting centrifugal blower that they have successfully integrated into a lot of VWs and Audis. I called them about an application for the 944, and they told me they were not going to offer a kit for it. The unique design allows it to be a bolt on mod, requiring no oil feed lines, intercooling (unless desired). You will have to modify the fuel system, but this would not be a show stopper by any means. Most of these work at around 5 psig of boost.....enough to gain you 40 or so HP.

Callaway installed turbochargers in the early 944 way back in 1983-1984. These cars were as fast as the 944 Turbo S cars from the factory.

Matt O.

I'm pretty sure either daly944 knows someone who is making a kit for a 944. Plus, superchargers of Knoxville already has one. With the right boost (and not hard for an 83) I heard you will see 60-70 hp gains... You will definately take that M.

-Matt

PS
Unless you drive a 951, don't even try a new M. My best friend has a 97 M3 and it's smokin.

Dave

The best bet is to work on YOUR abilities as a driver (do a DE or two), and maybe a few suspention mods. The 944 will out-handle an E30 M3, at least enough that your buddy will need the straights to catch up.

booster

I think I read that SOK (Supercharger of Knoxville) doesn't make one for the 83 944.

Craig944

SoK, DOES, they will install one on your car if you have an '83, they have to put a new brain in and it will not have an intercooler.

As far as hanging with him...
-New exhaust system = would help alot overall
(headers, testpipe, muffler)
-K&N Filter
-Throttle Cam
-MSD Ignition + Blaster 2 Coil + Silver Spark Plugs and Nitrous and he's yours. ;-)

Brian Wilson

I really like the baby steps used there. K&N, throttle cam, NITROUS!!! Nice.

ian

A stock 944 vs a stock e30 M3, I'm going to give the handling edge to the e30 M3 every time. The E30 M3 is one of the best handling cars ever produced. Sure it does not have the best skid pad numbers, but when you get these cars on track they are incredible. I have had both the M3 and a 951 in my family's garage in the last two years. And I have to stick up for the M. I belive the M is lighter, and the suspension is designed with racing in mind. Go to a Driver Event, you'll see more E30 M3's in one weekend than you would see on the road in a life time, this is because they are a great handling car.
Ok, I have started to ramble. But with all that said, if I had 10 grand for a car, I would buy a 951, they are great on the track, and can almost run with the M in the twisties and will floor it down the straits (this is why I drive one now).

Brent 89 - GT

And why???? Because the 951 will smoke the M3. For the dollars the 951 is very hard to beat. That said, I also think the e30 M3 is a superb car. This is back when an M designation went on the cars with stiff suspensions and highly tuned engines. The newer M cars are nice but IMO less suited to the track out of the box than the e30 M3. The engine in that car is a non-turbo version of BMWs F1 engine of the time, that is one stout four.

John.

I would have to disagree on the handling edge being given to the M. The 944/ 944 Turbo is one of the best handling cars ever....period. It has a much better weight distribution than the M. Funny to think the rear suspension bits on the early 924/944 came straight from the VW bug (bet most of you never knew that)! Don't get me wrong, the Bimmer is a great car, but it is no Porsche. Now had you mentioned the new M....well that might be a different story.

Tabor

While the 944 has a good weight bias, it has a simple/old suspension design.

ian

John,

I would not mention the new M3 in the same breath as the old one, out of respect for the original M3. The new car maybe one heck of a fast car for the money, it also has no character. In my family we have had the e30 M3, a e36 M3 and the e46 M3 is on the way. And BMW has been moving the M cars away from the original idea and has given them more mass market appeal (similar to what Porsche is doing with the 911).

The original M3 had the block out of the 1200 hp F1 cars that BMW used in the 1980's, and had every suspension pick up point moved to make it more applicable for the track. The front and rear windshields were bonded in to increace structural regidty. This was one specail car. And I will ask you to drive a nice example (with the stock suspension) to see how well these cars transmit what they are doing benieth you. Our 944 are not bad handling cars, and with the suspension work I've done to my car it now far surpases what my e30 M3 would have done, but the M3 was stock, and my car no longer has torsion bars (I think you hit it on the head when you said it came out of the bettle).

I'm not knocking the 944, I love my 951 and am determined to make it a great track / street car, but while looking for my car the only two other cars I considered were the e30 M3 and the Audi Quattro Coupe (those of you who don't know about this car I can go off for a while about its merits, but then again I can ramble about anything, as I think I'm proving )

keith

I'll tell you one thing - the original E30 M3's are NOT stiff suspensioned cars...

AND, for a race-oriented exercise, it has absolutely ZERO adjustability in the chassis and suspension, as delivered in the dealership...

AND, the steering wheel angle and size is whacked. I'm not sure if it was lifted from a Volvo or Mercedes truck?

That being said, I think they are wonderful cars - good looking, and excellent engine.

My buddy is trying to make his a better track performer right now, hence the abovementioned discoveries.

It'll still wax an NA, though.

ian

If you want to make the M3's suspension better for the track I suggest going to the Groupe N parts and the BMW parts Bin. Many of the parts they used to set these cars up for touring car racing are available. Some of the suspension changes are quite radical and require a roll cage to stenghten the mounting points. But they are out there, my friend is setting one up as well, he is setting it up with a 3.2 L e36 M3 engine and the groupe N suspension so he should have quite a formidable car.

Not only will a e30 M3 spank a N/A, on many road courses it will run with a stock 951. The M3 responds very well to trail braking and they have these really wierd lines that you can not run in a 944, well you can you would just be very slow.