MAGK944

Question: Is it really the pan design that is the main cause of these failures?

I have read that on certain high-g turns the oil pick-up can struggle to draw oil and this will certainly help. But I have also read that the primerery cause is the drilled feed to #2 is the furthest away so the first to lose pressure for whatever reason. Isn't that why people x-drill #2 only, to ensure it gets an increase in flow to match 1,3&4?

Going with my theory that the best way to get the right answer on Rennlist is to post the wrong one. Experts please!

fejjj

Add me to the list.

Jamesr6967

Interested as well .

Eric_Oz_S2

So what is the benefit of this compared to stock. I have never had any issues with oil pressure, and the stock sump insert and windage cutout in the s2 block seems to be doing a good job. This is despite running twin grooves and extensive track use.

So why wouldn't you simply mill the crankcase to match the s2/968 design, add the plastic insert and then maybe cross drill the crank. This would potentially be of more benefit than a sump wouldn't it?

Paulyy

Milling the crankcase isn't really a bolt on option.

a good sump design is a good idea. I'm sure there will be a small market even if there's no interest right now. People always come up looking for improvements when tracking their car.

Even for a street car, some like to go up to the hills and drive enthusiastically ect.

URG8RB8

I am interested in a new pan that looks like the Moroso, I all ready have a highly modified stock pan and don't want anything like that. A totally new design with a thinner gasket would be nice.

Eric_Oz_S2

So what's wrong with the stock sump? How do you make it better? You cant make it any deeper.

Van

If you can, clear your design(s) with the 944 Cup and Spec 944 sanctioning bodies so it's legal for racers to use.

951and944S

Everything starts with the pickup tube and screen, then along the conduit that leads to the suction side of the pump which is cross section passage between the girdle and the block, machine fit and sealed with the anaerobic sealant...any air suction there and you have bubbles in your oil.

You could chop a side of the stock pan and add a boxed sump, tap for a fitting, run an external hose +xx% of the original cross section in the girdle and use a 90 deg fitting tapped right into the aluminum suction side of the oil pump.

Everything external and no more worries of cracked pickup tubes/uncovered screen, etc.

I looked at doing this a couple of years ago and there is room between the crank pulley and the oil pump if a banjo style fitting is used.

I used to do something similar on dirt track cars that used powerglide automatics as a way to engage and disengage drive.....the intake was plumbed just as described to the front of the pump's suction and interrupted with a flow/no flow valve.

Automatic transmission pumps are almost identical to the 944 oil pump, twin inter mesh rotor separated by a crescent with a suction and discharge side.

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention.....reason I never followed through is, I don't see the necessity....I cringe when I watch race videos of the way we beat on stuff on track and as of yet, -0- oiling, rod bearing problems.

Swepco oil and rod bearing changes every other season.


T

Chris White

I am very interested.
There are a couple of points that make it a little tougher –
You will need a 2.5 and 3.0 pan if you want the windage tray / scraper to work well.
Turbo oil return w/blanking plate for non turbo applications
Oil level sensor mount (may need to be relocated if the pan holds more)
Revised Dipstick if the sump is larger – the oil level will be lower.
Possible lower sump in the front if you include an oil return to the main sump

If you get it all right this will be a very desirable part!

bebbetufs

Here's rough sketch of the basic idea. The windage tray is hard to see in the drawing.


The windage tray will sit on top of the baffles and the baffles will be welded to the tray to give it rigidity and to ease assembly. The windage tray will be bolted to threaded inserts in the pan.
The diamond shape minimizes slosh and, together with the two outside perpendicular baffles, makes the trap doors more efficient as the oil outside the diamond shape will be forced into the centre of the diamond by acceleration, deceleration and cornering forces.


Please keep your ideas coming though. I need all the imput I can get on this.

bebbetufs

This is a common misconception. # 2 is actually just that, second from the front mounted pump. It may be more a question of angles. Angles create high and low pressure zones which somehow guide the majority of the bubles in the oil to the #2 bearing. In addition this bearing feeds the upper balance shaft and the turbo.

bebbetufs

There is one problem with this and that is that the size of the oil channel before the pump is a compromise between start up delivery and high speed delivery. If the ID is too large the pump will struggle to create enough low pressure on startup and may lose its prime. You risk damaging the bearings. If it is too small it won't deliver enough at high RPM and you increase the risk of cavitation.

I'm not skilled enough to start messing with the pick-up channel, so I think I'll leave it alone.

bebbetufs

Chris. Do you think it would be safe to make the scrapers bolt-in? If fastened with heavy-duty Locktite the bolts should not back out, or one could use rivets. this would mean one would select scrapers depending on block, but the pan itself would remain the same. If we make the scrapers out of teflon, and add locating dowels to the block, the pan should sit in the same location every time and the scraper will shape itself to the crank allowing for a very close fit.

Will the pistons receive enough cooling if we do this?

Regarding the dipstick. Would we not want to keep the same level/distance from the crank even if the volume increases as long as the baffles and tray can keep the oil away from the crank efficiently enough?

I'm thinking we can do away with the gasket and simply use RTV sealant on the flanges as long as the pan has been made deeper to compensate for the thickness of the stock gasket.

URG8RB8

I am liking what I am seeing so far!