951and944S

Hey, Yellow, I understand yourself getting defensive, since your the one minus the extra power, it only makes, sense...
Every tidbit of information I posted is fact, go back and reread my post, maybe you'll learn something. If I misunderstood your post for being serious, then please add a smiley, or LOL, or <G>, thus letting me know your kidding. I appologize if this is the case.
What technical facts do you possibly base your opinion on...?
I'm in the auto repair business and work on these cars all the time..!
The 911's even suffer from unreliable cam chains and tensioners, every car has inherant flaws, it doesn't make the "S" stand out as a bad buy any more than any other car, IMO

Maybe you should check ALL the post, since you seem to be the one in the minority here.

All in fun, Yellow, I don't want to argue this subject with you, I asked "what gives"
in the hopes, someone could point out some facts to back p the "car is crap" mentality.
I must admit I'm yet to see any, to explain why I've clocked 70,000 miles on one and have yet to do anything more major than an alternator....!
The difference between the NA/S in performance, is far greater than the S/S2 difference, so why suggest the S2 to someone who is interested in value and purchase price..? Hell, they even come standard with the more desirable offset, that even the '86 turbo lacks, so wheel upgrades are easier...

To Mark, Prince,Alex, and Drew:
Sorry guys if I give "S" owners a bad name, by my ranting, but IMO, the best value to recommend to any prospective buyer, is GET THE S, all this negative hype about them, makes for a cheap purchase, and as much fun as you can have in any of these cars. Make no mistake the NA car is great, but at least I admit it....!

Terry

drew

Now that everyone has vented, let's go back to the original question and ask the originator if any of this has been helpful? Made any decisions? Ask specific questions and we all will attempt to answer, peacefully :-{)
How about starting a thread that lists all the differences between the 944 and S?
and turn this into something constructive!

AndyK

Maybe a better way to phrase it would be:

If you could buy both the 944, or the 944S--brand new, right now, are they both as reliable (except for the belt tensioner)??

I am debating the "S" question myself (will be buying a 944 soon), and I am on a budget and dont need a cracked-head, 16 valve mess in my garage!

Debate on!

Tom

I had an 84, I have an 87S now. From what I can tell much of the initial criticism of the 944S was that it wasn't all that much different from and looked like the regular 944 (true) and the power difference wasn't that much greater so was it worth the extra $4000. This was a legitimate complaint especially if comparing the 944S to the Euro 944. There is a greater difference 944S vs US 944.

I don't notice an exterme performance difference between the two yet, maybe I have more to learn about the 944S. The S likes to rev more which is useful on the track and in auto-X. The last DE I was at, I spent a session chasing a 944 that I thought was faster than I was until I got behind it. On the straights, I noticed I could use the power to gain on it (in my S). Had I pressed the issue and passed, I think I would have run away. The S has more power up high, where it isn't all that useful under normal conditions but it isn't any worse than the 944 otherwise.

8-v's are simpler and less costly if disaster happens. S-2's are even better. Turbos are the choice if you have to have more and more power. I notice the idle is a little rough (I thought it might be a motor mount on mine but maybe "They all do that") but certainly not a problem.

I think the best advice is to get the best car you can find. I don't think the S is worth a premium just because it has 16 valves, but go for it if it is an equal or better car. Overall the difference between a better driver is greater than the difference in performance between the 8 & 16 V's. The sleepers would be the 88 924S and the 89 2.7L 8-valve cars which have the power of the Euro 944's.

As far as 944S maintenance, it looks like checking/replacement of the tensioner pad or the chain tensioner is not really a big deal and can be DIY. I do have a worry about chain stretch as if the chain sprockets wear it means a new cam. But if there weren't oil leak and chain tensioner issues it wouldn't be a real Porsche! All 944's can have problems with the rod bearings if driven hard with insufficient oil. The S/S2/968 may be slightly more suceptible because 7000 rpm is easier to obtain and more rewarding.

BRB_85.5_NA

Well, damn, I was warned but I had no idea....

This has been very helpful, especially all the very specific, unmystified, exacting descriptions of the chain tensioner, oil delivery etc. problems. I haven't made my decision yet, but will let you know when I do. Going to look at an '83 with only 90k miles and new timing belt/water pump this weekend.

Thanks!

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Wow Terry, you sure tought me a lesson. Listen buddy, if you want to start throwing that "I work in the auto industry" baloney at me thats fine. Just dont think it gives you some sort aura of knowledge because it obviously does not. You can show me performance figures all you want; but when it comes down to it you will find exactly what I have said time and time again: The 944S's gains are too marginal to rant/brag about or to sideline an 8v for. And since you threw that jealous cause I have less hp trash at me I'll tell you this: I was in the market for THE BEST 944 I could find when I was looking for my car. I almost got an S2 for cryin out loud. The reason I got the car I have now is because it is in great condition, and looks trick as hell in yellow. I dont care who has more power buddy.

951and944S

Yellow, first, I never posted a message directed at you, until you came off flaming like a lunatic, towards me, my post may have followed yours, but I label my post to whom it is directed to.
Check it out.
Second, what are you smoking..?
We're talking about, 40-50hp and torque here, if you can't feel the difference between an S (in good tune) and an 8 valve car, perhaps you should get someone to ride with you, in the event that you get a flat tire, as you'd probably never notice...!
N/A owners consider spending $3900.00 to get 40% increase in power by adding a S/C...?
The extra gains of the 16V motor is a bargain then..
Was'nt that S2 you drove awesome..? Well guess what..? The differential in estimated power is 18 more hp than the S....!

I'll now ignore your post from now on, since I've come to the conclusion, that there's surely nothing I can learn from you, and that's what I'm here for..

Cheers

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

I'm sorry honey. Actually the S2 did feel awesome, and actually had the speed to match. The S is right around where the 8v is in speed (although FEEL is definately different, but that does not count as speed) .

PS, dont ever compare the S with an SCed 44.

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Oh yeah, I hope you have learned a few things about your beloved S from other (and according to you more credible ) listers who seem to hold the same general idea as me.

drew

I am almost dreading posting this reply for fear of another off colour/ poorly thought out flame from Lemon Yellow, but it needs to be said.
Try this link that takes you to a 1987 Car & Driver article on the 944S, the home version of this link also provides some interesting S articles and links.
The articles perspective nearly sums up the differences.
Cheers
http://www.944s.com/articles.htm

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

ah drew, you could not let it rest could you? Well fortunately I can. As for insulting my intelect by posting that my replies are poorly thought out, take this dummy pooh pooh breath caca-mouth.

drew

Just as I expected. Did you at least check out the link??

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Drew, please let it rest before I get crancky again. No I did not check out the link. Now let this topic DIE, alright?
Have a nice day.