Two Sides to Every Story...
08-22-2001, 12:02 PM
#16
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Concerning the AutoAtlanta cover, I would have to second PaulK. I won't do business with AutoAtlanta for all of the other reasons but it doesn't have anything to do with their cover.
Their cover is no more provacative than the some of the pictures in some magizines that are for women. Cosmo...Vanity Fair.
You can certainly see the effects of Political correctness has had on our society when a forum (comprised mostly of men) starts on the topic of bad customer service and ends up denouncing a company because of their magizine cover.
Additionally, I bet most people would do business with AutoAtlanta, if everything else wrong with that company was fixed, regardless of the cover of their catalog. If they had the best price and gave good customer service I would still do business with them.
Obviously, everyone has the right to make their own decisions and if the cover really offends you then I think you should be true to your convictions. My only advice would be to never buy a Harley-Davidson. You won't be able to get parts from anywhere but the factory/dealership if you won't do business with companies that have provocative women on the cover.
Before the PC police come to flame me...I am not a misogynist and Harley owners are no more univerally 'low brow' than Porsche owners are universally 'high brow'.
Regards,
Max
Their cover is no more provacative than the some of the pictures in some magizines that are for women. Cosmo...Vanity Fair.
You can certainly see the effects of Political correctness has had on our society when a forum (comprised mostly of men) starts on the topic of bad customer service and ends up denouncing a company because of their magizine cover.
Additionally, I bet most people would do business with AutoAtlanta, if everything else wrong with that company was fixed, regardless of the cover of their catalog. If they had the best price and gave good customer service I would still do business with them.
Obviously, everyone has the right to make their own decisions and if the cover really offends you then I think you should be true to your convictions. My only advice would be to never buy a Harley-Davidson. You won't be able to get parts from anywhere but the factory/dealership if you won't do business with companies that have provocative women on the cover.
Before the PC police come to flame me...I am not a misogynist and Harley owners are no more univerally 'low brow' than Porsche owners are universally 'high brow'.
Regards,
Max
08-22-2001, 12:43 PM
#17
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I'm amused by people that deride my values as being part of a non-existent political orthodoxy, i.e. 'political correctness'. Ain't no such thing. Just a stereotype. My opinions are my own and conform to nobody's standards but my own.
The catalog cover demeans women. Consequently it demeans me because it assumes I will be more likely to purchase product from them if they titillate my libido with provocative images. I do not do business with businesses that demean me. You don't have a problem with it, Max, because your values are different. Fair enough: that's your business. I won't waste my time dissecting your attitudes, nor will I make generalizations about your point of view.
The fact this thread turned to that issue is not because of a mindless political orthodoxy. It's because, generally speaking, we were talking about instances of businesses doing their customers a disservice, and ways that unreasonable customers do businesses a disservice. A catalog cover that insults my intelligence is a disservice to me. Consequently I will not do business with that company. Simple and sweet.
Smart businesspeople don't offend potential customers unnecessarily.
Thaddeus
The catalog cover demeans women. Consequently it demeans me because it assumes I will be more likely to purchase product from them if they titillate my libido with provocative images. I do not do business with businesses that demean me. You don't have a problem with it, Max, because your values are different. Fair enough: that's your business. I won't waste my time dissecting your attitudes, nor will I make generalizations about your point of view.
The fact this thread turned to that issue is not because of a mindless political orthodoxy. It's because, generally speaking, we were talking about instances of businesses doing their customers a disservice, and ways that unreasonable customers do businesses a disservice. A catalog cover that insults my intelligence is a disservice to me. Consequently I will not do business with that company. Simple and sweet.
Smart businesspeople don't offend potential customers unnecessarily.
Thaddeus
08-22-2001, 02:46 PM
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I bet for every offendee, there is a corresponding non-offendee. Don't buy stuff if you dont like the vendor. That's competition! I remember a poster the Tweeks (the old P.B.Tweeks) used to carry that had a well dressed man in a Porsche 911, red, with a well dressed woman leaning over...you get the idea. It was dumb, and I would not buy it, but I still bought stuff from PB Tweeks....Last time I bought a car magazine, I had to wade through about 50 muscle mags with rippling pecs and abs, bikini clad babes, and boy was I offended. My tummy does not look like that. C'mon guys, lets get back to performance of vendors. 
08-22-2001, 03:24 PM
#19
Wait, I just wanted to say that I didn't see a gun against the girls head on the cover of the AA catalog. If it isn't demeaning to the model than there you go. I am Irish and think it is offensive that Notre Dame uses a punchy red nosed Mick as their mascot. But am I going to get my nose out of joint because of it. No.
Don't shop at AA because of the cover if you like, I don't like to shop there because they are *******. But better yet, instill some values and a sense of self worth in your kids so that covers like that become not so much offensive as ridiculous. People, male and female are forced to conform to assigned socital roles by such things as the AA cover or WWF, etc. but you as a parent are responsible for preventing that from happening. At lease in my opinion that is.
Don't shop at AA because of the cover if you like, I don't like to shop there because they are *******. But better yet, instill some values and a sense of self worth in your kids so that covers like that become not so much offensive as ridiculous. People, male and female are forced to conform to assigned socital roles by such things as the AA cover or WWF, etc. but you as a parent are responsible for preventing that from happening. At lease in my opinion that is.
08-22-2001, 04:06 PM
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You know, I should have known better than to espouse my opinion regarding the AA cover. Thaddeus was honest he didn't
Instead, he voted me down on the memeber rating because he was offended once again by something that he saw/read.
I was not trying to attack your beliefs Thaddeus and I apologize if you were offended. It just seems to me that people are awfully easily offended these days and your reaction just proves my point. If it's not one thing then it is something else. It is a free country. The right of the idiots at AA to put a provacative picture on their cover is a fundamental freedom upon which this country is built.
Maybe I was offended that you described that Model on the AA cover as a "*****". For all you know she could be my wife.
Maybe I find that kind of language offensive. It is a foul word by its definition. But you see, Thaddeus, you have the right to say and think anything you want to about that cover or the woman on it.
I was just a little surprised that it was such an issue and that is what I was pointing out. I did not intend to insult your value system.
However, it is obvious that was your intent towards me. Otherwise you would not have lowered my member rating.
You don't get to claim the moral high ground unless you can remain civil and unoffensive yourself.
Since this is a written forum it is very easy to unintentionally insult someone. That being the case I apologize if I insulted you Thaddeus. Based on your reaction it is clear that I did.
Max (seriously thinking about not posting anymore)
waste my time dissecting your attitudes, nor will I make generalizations about your point of view.
I was not trying to attack your beliefs Thaddeus and I apologize if you were offended. It just seems to me that people are awfully easily offended these days and your reaction just proves my point. If it's not one thing then it is something else. It is a free country. The right of the idiots at AA to put a provacative picture on their cover is a fundamental freedom upon which this country is built.
Maybe I was offended that you described that Model on the AA cover as a "*****". For all you know she could be my wife.
Maybe I find that kind of language offensive. It is a foul word by its definition. But you see, Thaddeus, you have the right to say and think anything you want to about that cover or the woman on it. I was just a little surprised that it was such an issue and that is what I was pointing out. I did not intend to insult your value system.
However, it is obvious that was your intent towards me. Otherwise you would not have lowered my member rating.
You don't get to claim the moral high ground unless you can remain civil and unoffensive yourself.
Since this is a written forum it is very easy to unintentionally insult someone. That being the case I apologize if I insulted you Thaddeus. Based on your reaction it is clear that I did.
Max (seriously thinking about not posting anymore)
08-22-2001, 04:21 PM
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Max, I just upped your rating. Keep posting! Hey, what color is your S2 Cab? My 91 S2 Cabrio is Guards Red, sometimes characterized as the "midlife crisis color" or "police-attraction red." Anyway it adds a bit of hair on the top and takes a few inches off the middle when I am tooling around in the car, which is one of my favorite Porsche models of all time. I've owned two 944s and a 911, by the way, and my brother has a twin-turbo 993 and a Boxster S, so I have logged a few miles in a variety of Pcars and have a pretty good base for comparing models.
Skip - you know the poster! What happened to that one?
Forum - remember, this started as a diatribe on customer service. I forgot to mention that I have had to "force" vendors to refund things by contesting on my charge card. It usually speeds up a recalcitrant vendor. I think this is the risk you take to save a few bucks. Lately, I have tried to avoid mailorder and get stuff from local vendors.
My kid just bought a computer long distance, and what do you know, I am helping him pack it up and send it back-- yup, it doesn't work right(and I like a good dad will help him pay for the return shipping...he's buying another machine from a local store.)
Skip - you know the poster! What happened to that one?
Forum - remember, this started as a diatribe on customer service. I forgot to mention that I have had to "force" vendors to refund things by contesting on my charge card. It usually speeds up a recalcitrant vendor. I think this is the risk you take to save a few bucks. Lately, I have tried to avoid mailorder and get stuff from local vendors.
My kid just bought a computer long distance, and what do you know, I am helping him pack it up and send it back-- yup, it doesn't work right(and I like a good dad will help him pay for the return shipping...he's buying another machine from a local store.)
08-22-2001, 04:24 PM
#23
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One of the world's three biggest lies:
"The customer is always right"
Quite to the contrary, the customer is often a butthead. Unfortunately for the salesmen, they cannot let on that they think so.
"The customer is always right"
Quite to the contrary, the customer is often a butthead. Unfortunately for the salesmen, they cannot let on that they think so.
08-22-2001, 05:12 PM
#25
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A few things I want to offer my ideas about:
Member rating:
Who cares what somebody rates you? For all (you too?) I care, somebody who's opinion should (possibly) be much less important than another's could lower your rating, because in their minds you're not a good fellow board member. Does that necessarily mean that you're actually less knowlegable, or helpfull then another guy with a higher rating? I don't think so. Then again many people are judgemental, and I personally feel slightly annoyed by my 4 stars as well. If you say it like it is, you're going to hurt some people, however IMO being honest is more important. We don't want misinformation here on rennlist. I personally took a break from these boards when the abundance of the posts turned from helpfull/technical, or even funny to pointless, and annoying (for me at least). I say this in no defense of MadMax, or bashing of Thaddeus. Just my thoughts, from a 3rd point of view.
About AA cover:
I see Thaddeus' point, and it's hard not to agree with it to an extent. I see it as an insult to my intelligence as well... However, I have lots of parts diagrams, and old catalogs from them, I think they come in handy, and offer insight not really available from other sources. I have the catalog with the infamous cover as well, but would I do business with them? Not in the forsee-able future.
Ahmet
Member rating:
Who cares what somebody rates you? For all (you too?) I care, somebody who's opinion should (possibly) be much less important than another's could lower your rating, because in their minds you're not a good fellow board member. Does that necessarily mean that you're actually less knowlegable, or helpfull then another guy with a higher rating? I don't think so. Then again many people are judgemental, and I personally feel slightly annoyed by my 4 stars as well. If you say it like it is, you're going to hurt some people, however IMO being honest is more important. We don't want misinformation here on rennlist. I personally took a break from these boards when the abundance of the posts turned from helpfull/technical, or even funny to pointless, and annoying (for me at least). I say this in no defense of MadMax, or bashing of Thaddeus. Just my thoughts, from a 3rd point of view.
About AA cover:
I see Thaddeus' point, and it's hard not to agree with it to an extent. I see it as an insult to my intelligence as well... However, I have lots of parts diagrams, and old catalogs from them, I think they come in handy, and offer insight not really available from other sources. I have the catalog with the infamous cover as well, but would I do business with them? Not in the forsee-able future.
Ahmet
08-22-2001, 05:33 PM
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I guess you can call me wierd. Nice legs, cute rear end, what's not to like. After all, it's just a cover. Guess I still have a few redneck roots to dig up
