Installing Fuel Cell - Fuel pump in trunk of 944
07-01-2013, 07:13 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Looks pretty clever. However, I'd have a few concerns... well, two, really. 1) in rear impacts, I've seen that spare tire well crumple a bit - but usually the trunk floor forward of the transmission cross brace doesn't have much deformation, so I'd think you want the fuel cell to be as far forward to give it more "cushion" from impacts.
2) Fuel weight is such a changing variable, I'd want the fuel cell mounted as close to the center of gravity as possible.
But kudos for thinking outside the box, as it were.
2) Fuel weight is such a changing variable, I'd want the fuel cell mounted as close to the center of gravity as possible.
But kudos for thinking outside the box, as it were.
I appreciate your comments and kudos
I offer a few comments.
1. The fuel cell center of gravity is similar to the existing fuel tank. Placing a fuel cell in the position of the existing fuel tank would cost 2 X to purchase the fuel cell from ATL.
2. The fuel cell in the spare tire well is on the center line of the roll center where the existing fuel tank configuration shifts more weight to the left of roll center as the fuel level drops.
3. Race cars I am familar with (Camaro's. Mustang's, Alfa's, etc) all have the fuel cell in the rear with less crush protection, ie no real bumper or less substantial bumper. The installation is no any less safe than all the other race cars on the track.
4. Greg Fordahl, race engineer for Alexis Job Racing, and who built my 944, told me that the handling characteristics of the car would not change if I mounted the fuel cell in the rear tire well.
5. My times at Mid Ohio were the same with the existing fuel tank in operation as with the fuel cell in operation. The handling was the same - car neutral.
6. The bottom line is my system provides a DIY to install a fuel cell with 11+ gal capacity for 30 to 50 percent less cost than using a standard supplied 8 gal ATL fuel cell.
Keep the comments coming. This is good discussion which leads to more innovations and better prepared race cars.
Tom
07-01-2013, 11:35 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Very nice work. How much?
Although position wise it may be slightly more vulnerable than the stock tank, being a foam filled cell I would be 100% comfortable running this.
I grew up in the era of drop tanks on Australian V8 muscle cars. Back in the day they hung low and were open tanks without all of the safety associated with modern fuel cells.
Although position wise it may be slightly more vulnerable than the stock tank, being a foam filled cell I would be 100% comfortable running this.
I grew up in the era of drop tanks on Australian V8 muscle cars. Back in the day they hung low and were open tanks without all of the safety associated with modern fuel cells.
07-02-2013, 08:00 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I do no have invoices at hand because on vacation. The costs of the installation including the fuel cell, "dog" house enclosure (photos to be posted week of July 8th), plumbing, fasteners, brackets, etc is about $2050. The fuel cell is approx. 60% of installed cost.
More details to be posted on costs.
Tom
More details to be posted on costs.
Tom
11-13-2014, 12:46 PM
#19
fuel tank
Hi - just found your thread and am very intrigued. My 1987 is completely built and benefits from racing fuel. thinking I would like to add a tank like yours for race fuel along with a y-gate, perhaps solenoid actuated/switchable. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Thanks!
I finalized the design with ATL Fuel Safe. The fuel cell is mounted in the 944 spare tire well and fuel cell top is flush with the trunk floor. The fill plate has an adjustable 2 1/2" fill connection that can be plumbed to the existing fuel fill connection. A fuel level sensor is installed. The net fuel volume is 10 gallons.
My contact at ATL was Drew.
Main advantages are: no removal of existing fuel tank until the tranmission needs to be removed; no cutting of the trunk floor; no fabrication and welding required to reinforce and stiffen the trunk area; to fabrication and welding required to mount the standard fuel cell container. A conservative estimate to cut, fabricate, reinforce, and weld for a standard fuel cell is 10 - 12 hours. Plumbing is extra. Covers to isolate the fuel cell, fuel pump, and fuel filter need to be fabricated by a sheet metal technician.
My system is for a DIY: I will start plumbing for the fuel cell in early June. The fuel cell ship date is June 10. I plan to run SVRA at Mid Ohio June 26-30.
I will update the progress with posts and photos.
My contact at ATL was Drew.
Main advantages are: no removal of existing fuel tank until the tranmission needs to be removed; no cutting of the trunk floor; no fabrication and welding required to reinforce and stiffen the trunk area; to fabrication and welding required to mount the standard fuel cell container. A conservative estimate to cut, fabricate, reinforce, and weld for a standard fuel cell is 10 - 12 hours. Plumbing is extra. Covers to isolate the fuel cell, fuel pump, and fuel filter need to be fabricated by a sheet metal technician.
My system is for a DIY: I will start plumbing for the fuel cell in early June. The fuel cell ship date is June 10. I plan to run SVRA at Mid Ohio June 26-30.
I will update the progress with posts and photos.
11-14-2014, 09:39 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=joe951;11800563]Hi - just found your thread and am very intrigued. My 1987 is completely built and benefits from racing fuel. thinking I would like to add a tank like yours for race fuel along with a y-gate, perhaps solenoid
A Y-valve or 2 solenoid valves would work but two switching units are required ; one for the inlet to the fuel pump and one for the return from the fuel pressure regulator mounted on the fuel injection rail.
Why do what to use race fuel? Does you engine have '88 pistons and a shaved cylinder head?
A Y-valve or 2 solenoid valves would work but two switching units are required ; one for the inlet to the fuel pump and one for the return from the fuel pressure regulator mounted on the fuel injection rail.
Why do what to use race fuel? Does you engine have '88 pistons and a shaved cylinder head?
11-15-2014, 11:49 AM
#21
T&T-
Thanks for the response. PO prepped car for track, partial build sheet and photo below. I got the idea from a magazine article featuring a 300zx which had a switchable fuel set up. It seems that like a pretty cool idea to have the option, especially given the available room.
Web-Cam #274 grind camshaft
Pauter Forged Connecting Rods
Factory .50mm oversize Forged Alloy Piston Set
Lindsey Racing Knife-edged, Cross-drilled, Balanced, & Micro Polished Crankshaft
Lindsey Racing Stage II Cylinder Head
Lindsey Racing Super 61 Turbo w/#8 hot housing
Lindsey Racing Race Valve Spring Set
Lindsey Racing Billet Fuel Rail Kit
Lindsey Racing Stage 5 Intercooler
Lindsey Racing Oil Pan Baffle Kit
Lindsey Racing Stage 3 Mass Air Flow Kit
Lindsey Racing Intercooler Hard Pipes
Lindsey Racing Manual Boost Control Kit
Lindsey Racing Modified Wide Fire Ring Head Gasket
Lindsey Racing Cylinder Head Steam Vent Kit
Lindsey Racing Billet Aluminum Expansion Tank
Lindsey Racing Silicone Vacuum Line throughout
Lindsey Racing Mafterburner Piggy Back Fuel Controller
Lindsey Racing Magnacore 8mm Silicone Plug Wires
Lindsey Racing Billet Aluminum Ultra Mounts
Lindsey Racing Clubgate wastegate
Thanks for the response. PO prepped car for track, partial build sheet and photo below. I got the idea from a magazine article featuring a 300zx which had a switchable fuel set up. It seems that like a pretty cool idea to have the option, especially given the available room.
Web-Cam #274 grind camshaft
Pauter Forged Connecting Rods
Factory .50mm oversize Forged Alloy Piston Set
Lindsey Racing Knife-edged, Cross-drilled, Balanced, & Micro Polished Crankshaft
Lindsey Racing Stage II Cylinder Head
Lindsey Racing Super 61 Turbo w/#8 hot housing
Lindsey Racing Race Valve Spring Set
Lindsey Racing Billet Fuel Rail Kit
Lindsey Racing Stage 5 Intercooler
Lindsey Racing Oil Pan Baffle Kit
Lindsey Racing Stage 3 Mass Air Flow Kit
Lindsey Racing Intercooler Hard Pipes
Lindsey Racing Manual Boost Control Kit
Lindsey Racing Modified Wide Fire Ring Head Gasket
Lindsey Racing Cylinder Head Steam Vent Kit
Lindsey Racing Billet Aluminum Expansion Tank
Lindsey Racing Silicone Vacuum Line throughout
Lindsey Racing Mafterburner Piggy Back Fuel Controller
Lindsey Racing Magnacore 8mm Silicone Plug Wires
Lindsey Racing Billet Aluminum Ultra Mounts
Lindsey Racing Clubgate wastegate
