Macabre

I'm not sure how meaningful that chart is since valve size, porting, and cam profile alone (regardless of valve count per cylinder) can make big differences like that. Two cars with completely different heads and who knows what other differences can not be compared to see the results of one change.. That said, those results are approximately what I would expect..

jim968

Ribs.. one word for ya to think on..."Gearing?"

Ribs 'n' Tabor, I don't doubt that a 16V head w/wo variocam will make a difference on a turbo engine; i just doubt that, all else being equal, that it'll make as much difference as it will on a na engine. The na is a lot more challenged on high RPM breathing to begin with...

Not that i think anybody is going to go to the trouble of building a 16V Variocam 2.5L just to prove or disprove my point....

Anyway, as long as my 968 is my daily driver, it'll stay pretty stock... I'm too old to have to get out & tinker just to get home from work....

Jim, gone to change a Toyota u-joint...

ribs

Jim...the all-trac goes to about 37 MPH before the fuel cuts off in 1st. My 951 goes to about 42 with the chips. Stock it is probably lower. I still think substantial gains are to be made with a 16V motor, especially of such a large displacement, on a turbocharged car, as opposed to an 8 valve motor. Again, just a thought (I think I end more than half of my posts with that).

Michael Stephenson

Wasn't the variocam used to increase top end power on the 968, not bottom end power?

If it is all about low end torque, how about a 944S head? I do not know alot about the "S" engine, but wasn't the block very similar to the N/A? If so, might all of the holes for water and oil line-up?

Just a thought

ribs

Correct me if I am wrong, but the 944S was known for being more honda civic EX like than anything else. It had more top end, but less bottom end. Anyone with a 944S care to adress/correct?


-----edit-----

I know it was the same displacement (2.5L) as the rest of the n/a 944 motors of the era but probably had higer compression (10.5:1 sound right to anyone?)

Adam Richman

That's 10.9:1 ribs

As for it being a Civic Ex, I am not sure I understand the reference (had a Civic Si which the later Ex borrowed[?] + 300 lbs.[?]). My 944-S (not the Type S which is a whole different story) pulls somewhat begrudgingly from a standstill (in comparisson to my Si - tough cars to compare) but has a very beefy mid and upper range (nothing like a vtec but pretty damned good). Another thing to remember with how an S puts down power is that I believe it has a different transmission (than the 8v), the Turbo gears and a different (shorter) final drive so it might feel less torquey in that configuration (new+longer+shorter should equal zero sum gain but I kinda doubt that)?

Big shrug - bought it so I didn't wad up my street car so a.) I got no heritage in this stuff and b.) only drove one S - mine.

Sorry that this lowly S can't offer much help.

K. Wells

Adam is right, the S has the the 951 tranny with a shorter final drive. I've never driven a 8v 944, but I can tell you that in my S power starts to come on pretty good at 3500 rpm.

Here's a question, if someone put the variocam on a 928, then it CAN be put on the 944 16v, because the head is the same as the stock 928 head, so how much extra hp could it give ya, hmmm. Project anyone??

K. Wells

Adam is right, the S has the the 951 tranny with a shorter final drive. I've never driven a 8v 944, but I can tell you that in my S power starts to come on pretty good at 3500 rpm.

Here's a question, if someone put the variocam on a 928, then it CAN be put on the 944 16v, because the head is the same as the stock 928 head, so how much extra hp could it give ya, hmmm. Project anyone??

Adam Richman

Is that for the S or S2? Are the heads the same or no?

If that would be an appropriate fitment on an 87-88 S, I would definately like to hear the pros and cons.

K. Wells

That is for the 87-88 16v head, the 928 S4 is essentially two 944 S motors combined in a V8 configuration. (well pretty much, you know what i mean, but the heads are EXACTLY the same)

ksc jc

A simpler way to all this is to obtain low compression pistons & source for a 2.7 head.
It bolts directly onto the 968 block without
any mods & you can use all the plumbing from
the 951 engine.