David Salama

I have a 1987 944 Turbo which continues to have a small amount of brownish milky condensation on the oil cap before and after my full engine rebuild. I have already changed the oil once since the rebuild, but the condensation continues. There is no evidence of coolant on the dipstick, or oil in the coolant. The car runs perfectly. I plan on replacing my oil cooler seals to see if this helps. Can anyone give me some advice, and tell me what gaskets/O-rings to order and from whom. Do I really need the alignment tool? Thanks for your comments!!

Dan87951

David,
I'm actually right in the middle of changing mine on my higher mileage 951 (200k). Doesn't sound like your oil coolers seals are bad to me from what you have posted. If they’re bad you would definitely be getting coolant in the oil at extreme amounts. At least that is what happened to me. So far the job for me has consisted of removing the intake manifold, head, cam housing, and headers. Removing the head and header makes the job so much easier. Call or email Jason at paragon he sells the seals you need to do the rebuild, and also the tool you will need. I was told by several reputable people that the tool was needed, so I'm gonna use it and not waste all the hard work I already have into it by not taking the few extra minutes to line it up. Good Luck

Steve Lavigne

Dan, any signs of problems when you removed the head? The coolant holes that go from the block to the oil cooler are plugged with semi-permanent steel plugs. On 951's, the only way that coolant and oil can mix is from the headgasket.

If I am incorrect in this assertion, please let me know.

'86 951
-Steve

Dan87951

Steve,
Don't get me wrong I did have oil in the coolant expansion tank as well. It was most noticeable in the oil pan however. When I took the head of the coolant that was still sitting around the cylinder walls was still a nice antifreeze green color which also led to believe my oil cooler seals were bad. Also when I took off my head my headgasket, it had no signs of blow by, but when I took off my oil cooler, 2 of my seals were damaged. Anyways the car is getting a new head gasket and new oil cooler seals. Hopefully this will fix the problem.

David Salama

Tom L.was kind enough to e-mail me with a great answer, so I thought I would share it with everyone.
" i knew my seals were blown b/c i had to add coolant everytime i drove and my
oil level was mysteriously rising past the full mark yet no leaks on the
ground. i didn't have any milkshake on the dipstick either, just underneath
the cap. immediately after replacing the seals, i found my oil cap stayed
dry and clean underneath and haven't used a drop of coolant in 1.5 years &
10K miles. if you have any doubt and the seals have been in there for
awhile, i'd replace the seals. you don't want coolant lubricating your new
rod bearings. i got the kit from Zims for around $25, so it's a cheap
repair if you do it yourself. the kit is the specially shaped
oil-filter-housing-to-block gasket and 2 o-rings. there is a metal tube
between the block and the filter housing that the o-rings go on. there's a
power steering line in the way which i had to drain the p/s fluid and move
it out of the way. then leaving all the oil cooler lines attached, i
unbolted the little oil cooler radiator and hung the whole assembly off to
the side, i could't remove it completely. it's a tight fit in there, but it
can be done with patience and beer breaks. the exhaust manifold heatshield
has to come out too which was the biggest bitch of the whole deal. if you
had your engine out of the car, kick yourself for not doing the seals then
as it's a simple job . the factory manual says to use sealant with the
housing gasket only. i used the grey permatex stuff. i ordered the housing
alignment tool from baum tools, do a search on google to find them. for a
'87 you should need tool #9262/1 which i think cost me around $45 with the
shipping. you can use your oil pressure valve to align the housing but the
special alignment pin is the wise choice. let me know if you have any other
questions. good luck!

Tom
'87 951
'86 Supra "

David Salama

Well, I installed my new oil cooler housing gaskets and o-rings today. The note from Tom L above is an excellent description of the procedure. I would like to add the following, however. First, clearance to get at the area was aided by removing the sway bar from the passenger side of the car and swinging it away. Also, I drained the power steering fluid, and removed the pump to gain space to swing the sham cooler housing down, while still attached to the two oil lines connected to the external oil cooler.Pulling the housing down allows for a careful cleaning of the surfaces. The old gasket looks shot !! The two o-rings on the aluminum spacer between the block and the housing were also flat and brittle. I am very hopeful that this is the cause of my coolant to oil mixture. Despite draining all the fluids, be prepared for alot of coolant and some oil to spill when removing the housing. I was able to do the job without removing the exhaust manifold. Three of the four bolts can be seen from the right front wheel well. The forth bolt can be reached from above and below by feeling up and around from the back top of the housing. A small 1/4 " driver and a 13mm socket can engage the bolt nicely. The whole job took 7-8 hours. The alignment tool was quite helpful as well. Good luck to any others who want to freshen up this area.

Dan87951

David just curious what sealant did you use around the large gasket that goes from the gasket to the block? Can you pick up local?
Let us know if this fixes the problem.

Thanks

David Salama

Dan,

I used High Temp Red RTV Gasket maker to reinforce the gasket that comes with the oil cooler reseal kit. So far, I still have some mild condensation under the cap, but no chocolate milk. Does anyone else have condensation under their oil caps? I'm still hopeful that this goes away soon.

Tom R.

Here's what I wrote last summer in a post that related to this topic.

"OK guys here goes. There are posts on this on the old board, and I got a lot of info. from them. I have an 89 S2 with 62k that had/(has?) oil in the coolant. this past february I had the coolant flushed, and replaced the expansion tank. 4k later the tank was full of sludge.
I ordered the seal kit to fix a 944 NA. I posted the question about american mechanics being afraid of working on porches because my mechanic was deathly afraid of messing up.

I gave my mechanic the 5 volume set of service manuals, the haynes manual, and pictures from the web.

CONCLUSION:
If you take of the housing for the oil cooler there are two hoses that go to the external oil cooler. There are also two green o-rings. When we did the forensics, we saw a oil stains on the o rings. The o rings are in the same place as on the older NA's, and somehow have contact with a water passage. The seal kit had some extra parts. We only needed the big gasket, and some of the o rings.

After the o rings were replaced, my mechanic spent a lot of time cleaning out the sludge in the upper radiator hoses. He used a rod with a rag - sort of like an angioplasty for the arteries.

Maybe your sludge is residue from the radiator hoses.

If anyone has more info to clear up/correct what I'm posting please correct me. I'm using the car (this was supposed to be a winter car, and I really prefer driving my RX7 Convertible these days)(my wife's using the car - and scrubbing curbs - tune in for posts about wheel repair 90's) hoping to see if more sludge accumulates - or preferably doesn't accumulate in the water tank.

TOOLS
There is an alignment tool. Performance sold me one,and the job was done 3 days before the "in stock" part was delivered. When the job was almost done, I ordered one from Pelican, and theirs arrived the same day the Performance one came. They are different. I think performance sold me the one that fits the earlier years. Since my brother has an 84 with 31K i know the part will come in handy. My mechanic did the job with out the tool, but suggests it, and plans on opening/aligning/tightening the housing after about 1,500 miles if this seems to have done the trick.

Good luck
sorry about the length"

Oil in water/water in oil who knows?

Renntag

Dave you still get the shmeg under the cap?
my n/a gets it all the time....there are no problems anywhere how ever. I attribute it to condensation in the large 'oil separator' housing.

I clean the cap and it gone for most of the season. seems to be mostly when the rel humidity is high.

Let us know...

Renntag

This dealy deal here.

bs

i, too, just finished replacing these seals on my '87 951. I was getting a decent amount of sludge in the expansion tank which came back after i flushed the cooling system and washed the tank out.

i think the "7 or 8 hours" was a MUCH better estimate than the "45 to 90 minutes" given in the protocol posted under 944 faq's here on rennlist. it took me at least an hour just to get that damn uppermost bolt off. I used grey permatex RTV to seal the new gasket in. I will also second the reccomendations to remove the sway bar (really easy) and power steering pump/hoses (not as easy but i wanted to replace the reservior anyway).

I did not buy the alignment tool but now i'm thinking that maybe that was a bad idea since all of you guys did... i just put the pressure releif valve in with the mounting bolts still a little loose and then snugged them up? what are the potential ramifications of this that warrant the purchase of this expensive tool which i will hopefully never again use? I haven't actually filled her up with oil and coolant yet... do you more experienced folks reccomend that i should get this tool and align things properly before i call this job done?

would any of you who have done this already consider selling/loaning me your alignment tool?

btw, what is the purpose of the "oil seperator" mentioned in the last post?

David Salama

Colin,

No more smudge under the cap since my oil cooler seals were replaced. I do get condensation when I go for short drives, but no chocolate milk !! That was a good fix. Now if I could only figure out my oil leak near the base of the oil separator??? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

adrial

I'm getting a whitish sludge under my oil cap...but no coolant in oil on dipstick or oil in coolant in the resevoir.

Who votes for normal, who votes for oil cooler seals?

I'm gonna send out my old oil to be tested, I assume that should settle the issue?

951Tom

Adrial,
I used to think any sludge under the cap was bad but I'm not so sure that is correct now. Before I did my oil cooler seals, I had sludge in the hot summer. Immediately after replacement, in the hot summer, the cap stayed clean & dry. Now that's it's cold out, I'm getting a little bit of sludge, not much. I've been watching my coolant like a hawk, measuring from the bottom of the tank to the coolant level daily and it hasn't changed a millimeter. So, I vote sludge is normal if: you're positive the coolant level is staying the same and the tank is clean. Also, my oil still looks clear 1000 miles after changing it. Before I remember it getting brownish & opaque. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />