belz

I noticed that Truechoice sells something they refer to as a "Top Hat Bush". This looks like the "spacer", as I called it, that would be used to locate the rear damper with spherical bearings. $2.45 ea or $5.25 ea for custom applications. Cheap, considering how much everything else costs!

GeoffD

Guys,

I'm also looking for an upgrade from Koni Yellows which I think are a good shock for combined street and track and even for track only use on a car with up to 250 lb front springs and 26 mm torsion bars. I've got 400lb/30mm now and big sway bars and my car is so low that the Konis are only operating in the lower end of their travel. I basically want something that is more appropriately valved and sized for my application.

I've been looking at the remote reservoir, double adjustable alternatives but I share Belz's sense that I might not ultimately use the adjustability after initial set up. A number of years ago, I road raced Honda RS 250 GP bikes. These came with multi ( and I DO mean multi!) adjustable forks and shocks which you inevitably changed to even more adjustable Ohlins, Fox or White Power components. I had a mechanic who took care of chassis tuning but we generally found one good set up and didn't vary a lot during the season. Extra speed was more easily found in the rider!

So, if I don't go for remote and multi adjustable, what about Bilstein? Are these real race shocks or glorified street parts? Also what experience has anyone had with Leda or Carrera. The Carreras look like they are street parts.

IPC

Thanks to Jason @ Paragon I have the Koni double adjustable strus on the front of my race car (85 944) and I love them. It took 1 1/2 sec. off my times at Road Atlanta. They are easy to set up but installation can be tricky if you need to modify the bolt holes where the strut mounts to the spindle. But this my be corrected whih the new strut design. Ask Jason to be sure. These struts are racing struts therefor there is no warranty. If you do need to have one repaired or re-valved turnaround time is very fast.

GeoffD

Hey there IPC,

Sounds like we race in the same PCA class (I class that is). Judging from the fact that you had to modify the struts to make them fit, these are not cartridges but the complete strut. What is the rest of the set up on your car? Were the struts custom built and valved for your application? What's the price range?

Thanks for the info!!

belz

IBC- are the KONI struts you purchased the 28 series? What are you using on the back?
1.5 seconds! Yikes ... what were you using prior?
Regarding Carrera stuff ... I haven't heard much positive ... let's leave it at that.

belz

How about Advance-Design dampers from Ground-Control? Anyone have any experience? If so, please comment.
The price sure is attractive. $399 for custom valved / double adjustable / monotube - gas pressure full on race shocks.
This seems more like what these things should really cost (but with my luck it's probably more "you get what you pay for")
Check 'em out and let us know what you think. www.advance-design.com

Skip

Belz et al, the struts IBC is using are redone M030 struts. These are sent to Koni for revalve (higher rate than stock... more than adequate for the mentioned 400# spring rate) and made double-adjustable. The complementary rear Koni for use with these would be the 3012. Double-adjustable monotube coil-over height adjustable.

Skip

Skip

Belz: 28 update...

The 944 application 2812 (rear) and 2817 (front) are hybrid MKI LB (long-body). The MKII is simply made of lighter components (smaller floating piston and larger bore chro-moly shaft) and uses a Teflon coating within the body to reduce friction. The operating environment for the MKII is primarily Indy cars which have a much shorter stroke, run lower damper speeds, and have a shorter useful life (require rebuilds/revalves more often)... so, the trade-off is life and cost over elite function (remember, these are Indy cars with phat budgets! ) The exterior appearance of each will be the same as pictured above.

Also, the rear top mount is specifically designed for this application, and functions as a reducer for the mounting eye.

Next?

IPC

Skip's right, it is the M030 strut with the body threaded for adjustable ride height. And also made double adjustable. Jason had them made as a test set for R&D (they work very well) I am not sure of what the retail price will be but I am sure it will be less than the Leda or Morris units at $700-$750 per strut.

GeoffD

Skip,

I'm interested. For my car (88 924S), can you supply the M030 strut which is then modified by Koni? I already have the stock strut with a coilover kit mounted on it and a Koni yellow cartridge installed. I would like to buy a "turn key" replacement but could use my existing 400 Lb springs.

I also need shocks for the rear but can't run coil overs as they are illegal in PCA stock classes.

I'm interested in pricing. My e-mail is carolyndavies@sprint.ca if that is more appropriate for communicating pricing info.

IPC

Oh, and I was using the yellow Koni sports. At Road Atlanta the best time I ever turned was a 1:50.788 with the sports and with the double adjustable 1:49.400. Suspension is where the time is!

IPC

GeoffD, You can use a coil over rear shock as long as you don,t remove the rear torsion bars. Remember, it's the sprit of the rule that counts. You can have the torsion bars turned down so that they don't have an effective spring rate and run a 400# coil over spring and still be legal in the stock class.

belz

Skip-
Why long body?
Is there an issue with cars that are lowered?
Most of what I've heard is that for race prepared cars that are sig. lowered you need a shorter strut??
Is the overall strut longer or just the body?
I'm sure there is a good reason for using the long body ... please explain ....

Skip

"Long Body" is in comparison to F1/IRL applications of this same damper. They use a much shorter stroke than any sedan would because of the F1/IRL car multi-link geometry and the fact that they really don't move much.



One of the reasons to have the Paragon car for proper dialing in and fitment of these new shocks was to correct for ride height. As with most race-prepped 944's, the ride-heights do not vary much. Here's the specs on the Paragon 951...

Measure from fender lip to wheel center:
320mm - Front
322mm - Rear

Compare these numbers to your own to see what you find. While I am quite sure they would be in complete tolerance of the adjusted effective range of the dampers, we would be happy to verify with Koni to be absolutely sure.

belz

Skip ... thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. I'm away for the Thanksgiving holiday so I'll measure my car when I get back.