divil

Long winded post here...I am just looking for any opinions on this.

I have an 89 Turbo and the struts are shot. So I am trying to figure out the best option.

I have heard people say it's a shame to cut up the M030 struts to put inserts in them because apparently you can get Koni to rebuild them and do various upgrades to them, but only if you keep them intact. I didn't want to be without my car for weeks while I wait for a rebuild, but I am also reluctant to cut the M030s, even though I don't really understand what options I have with them. So I got a set of inserts and a set of shot M474s to cut up. I have not actually done any of the work yet, so I still have all options open to me. So, the options I see are:

1. Put the inserts in the M474s, and loose height adjustability, and have a softer spring (the springs are not interchangeable). It would still be an improvement over what I have now, but presumably somewhat inferior to the stock setup.

2. Hack the M030s, keep height adjustability and M030 spring, but loose any future M030 upgrade options. A friend of mine did this on his Turbo S and is totally happy with the results.

It is a street car which I would like to track occasionally in the future- but it will never be a dedicated track car. I do like the idea of keeping it stock...that is just something that appeals to me, for no practical reason.

I suppose the main question is, should I care about the options I might loose by cutting the M030s? I have not adjusted anything on them in the year and a half that I've had the car, and didn't even know how. But now I am getting to know the car better and I want to get the most out of it. What are the upgrades that Koni can do to them?

Right now I am leaning towards option 1 - if/when I later want more adjustability I can either get the M030s rebuilt or get the coil over kit from Paragon. Does that make sense?

All opinions welcome (even if it's that I am making a big deal out of nothing and clearly have too much time on my hands )

86 951 Driver

Give them to me and I will give you my stock Boge struts that you can hack up.

Seriously give it some thought we could work out something.

Arominus

Call Koni and see what they will charge to rebuild them. That or hacking the M474's you have would be my choice.

Don't trade dead M030's for boge's :P worst deal ever.

Edit. Since you have the inserts i would just do the M474's right now. You've already got em, and you'll have no problem selling them if you go with your M030's afterwards.

86 951 Driver

I wouldn't want an even trade for my stock Boge's. I am looking to replace my front struts and if he wants something to hack up use those instead of a set of factory koni's. Come on now give me a little credit.

968ls1

Send them to True Choice and have them rebuilt and converted to double adjustable the will be far better than any insert you can buy.

divil

Well I don't want to get rid of the M030s just yet. Even if I do, there would not be any point in swapping them since I would end up with a set of strut housings left over.

As for the M474s, I bought them to hack - so I will either hack them or trade them for something that will work just as well for hacking Jeff, if your Boge struts will fit my car and have a similar spring rate to the M474s then I wouldn't be opposed to that. I am already going down a step from the M030 spring...I don't want something that is much lighter. Does anyone know how the 2 struts compare?

You mean the M030s? Can you explain what you mean by double adjustable? That is exactly the kind of info I'd like to learn more about! BTW, I called those guys about rebuilding and they just gave me Koni's number. Presumably Koni do the same thing though.

$165 per strut, plus parts which could be up to $80 per strut.

Arominus

That's not that bad really, I'd have koni rebuild them.

One warning on the double adjustable mod, if you intend to run any sort of stock class racing (scca AX, ect) it will bump you to a much meaner class.

divil

yeah the cost wasn't the issue, it's depending on the cost of parts it might not be any more than buying the inserts... I just don't want the car off the road for that long. It will be at least 4 weeks.

Oddjob

For your situation, another option would be to remove the M030 struts and send them in to koni or true choice for rebuild. In the meantime, temporarily install the M474 struts, then swap those back out when the fresh M030s come back. Can then sell the M474 struts and unused koni inserts.

I don’t think you would want the M474 units in a Turbo S car as a permanent fix. The M474 struts use the stock turbo spring, 125 lb/in compared to the M030 160 lb/in. Also, the stock spring is longer than the M030 spring. If your car was lowered from the original US ride height using the adjustable perches (many cars have been), then installing M474s w/ stock springs will raise the ride height back up. As mentioned, you could go w/ a linear coil spring and ride height conversion for these struts (e.g. - the paragon kit), but no need if just using the 474s temporarily.

In the end its up to you. The turn around time for koni or true choice to rebuild is problematic, and the rebuild cost is not cheap.

But some of the rationale behind not wrecking koni strut bodies: I am one of the guys that discourages cutting up konis to install inserts. The inserts fit in boge strut bodies, which are nearly worthless. Koni no longer makes full 944 strut bodies, but any of the existing koni strut bodies can be rebuilt to original specs, custom valved, or upgraded to double adjustable (both compression and rebound damping adjustment). Used Koni struts have resale value, and appear to be increasing in value because as time goes on, more and more strut bodies get wrecked or converted for inserts.

For example, I have two track cars that I use konis on and have collected several koni strut assemblies over the past few years in order to keep fresh suspension on them. I bent (ruined) a strut last summer in a track incident, so I needed a replacement strut body for rebuild. And now I just picked up a pair of double adjustable konis off a wrecked track car, and found that both strut bodies are not useable (both are bent, so they are only good for piece parts). This is why I cringe when I hear of someone hacking up koni strut bodies to install inserts, especially M030 units.

Note: Double adjustable valving is primarily for track use. The adjustable damping settings are useful for tuning handling, and the valving is typically setup for high spring rates. Not really something you would use or need on a street car.

Below pic of various koni strut configurations: left to right - set of fresh rebuilt double adjustables back from koni/ITT (both were converted 8741 single adjustable sport yellows), set of double adjustables w/ koni collars & perches and RE hats and plates (one strut is a converted M474 strut and the other is an original Porsche motorsport part numbered race strut), a pair of stock M030 struts from a turbo S, and a pair of single adjustable sport yellow 8741 struts.

JimGinKC

Ah, didn't realize the springs were different. Consider how long you intend to own the car, and if you want to be done while the weather's nice or putting it back together Dec-Jan...lol.

If you decide to rebuild the factory struts, I'd go with hacking the stock ones (so no down time), run them til you get the rebuilds back. You should be able to sell the hacked ones with the new inserts for what you have in them.

the flip side is the car is probably going to drive so much better with the new suspension that you won't know if you need the M030's back or not

86 951 Driver

It sounds like he has a Turbo S. The M030 is a really nice setup for something stock.

Oddjob

Here is a set of hacked M030 struts w/ inserts on ebay right now. Asking too much (my opinion) for that configuration. No acknowledgement of the conversion in the ad - either they dont know the difference, or are trying to pull a fast one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-944-...c7aa61&vxp=mtr

Van

Jim, can you give me a rough idea what Koni charges for converting a set of M030 struts to double adjustable racing ones?

I currently have the Bilstein Escorts but am thinking about upgrading to double adjustable (and have a set of M030s).

Oddjob

Van,

Conversion of single adjustables to double adjustable is $400 per strut by koni or truechoice.

Paragon has the exchange program for $850 for the pair, which I recall includes koni threaded collars and perches.

You may or may not be able to use the factory M030 collars, since RE no longer makes the lower perch for the M030 threads. So may need to convert to aftermarket collars.

Also, the front konis require 2.5" ID springs, so you will need new perches, hats and springs - the 2.25"s from your bilsteins will not fit.

Here is a price list from another koni authorized service center. The front struts are 8741 (single adjustable) or 8742 (dbl adjustable) series.

http://www.propartsusa.net/shockdept.html

I ran bilstein for years and always thought they were good or good enough to be competitive in club racing. But I bought a car a couple years ago that came w/ konis, so have swapped over to running konis on my cars (converted dbl adjustable fronts and 8242 or 3012 series rears). I would not say there is a dramatic difference/improvement over the bilsteins. Certainly allows adjustability if you like to tinker, and they are valved for higher spring rates (at the higher settings) than the bilsteins - e.g. the 3012 rears are rated for upto 2000 lb/in spring rate. But I wouldnt say the car is any faster or feels much different when using similar spring rates between the bilsteins and konis. Both are very good track suspension.

JimGinKC

we got this knocked out today Check www.kcws.org to see the details