TexasRider

There are never any perfect choices but maybe something like Torlon might would have worked in that bearing insert. But they have to choose between something that wears over time and lets you know it is going, versus something that just grenades when its lifetime expires. Oh and it has to be cheap LOL LOL .

There are other solutions but you know some of those engineers worked for bean counters back in the 1980's - and some of them are in charge today! More than even that , in the car business the assembly operation is many times much more important to them at the OEM and factory level.


Not even our miraculous human body parts will stay running forever.

xschop

Of Course you can buy new strut top mounts that set you back a grand or new trans mounts that set you back $300 and still are not designed properly. The CV's on these cars would last eons if the rear trans mounts were designed stronger.

StoogeMoe

Let's look at the competition at the time the 944 was made. Which one do you think is more reliable? Can you measure reliability by how many are still on the road? Which do you see more of? The 944 or one of these? Are you glad you have the 944?

Cole

It's interesting because so many other cars in the world also use timing belts. So not an issue specific to Porsche.

People just tend to throw away an old Nissan if the belt fails, where people want to rebuild the old Porsche.

All three of my Audis and my 928 also have timing belts. As do many Ducatis.

One big "issue" some of the V8 Audi S4 owners are facing now is that the motor is a timing chain. A few failures have started showing up on 150k mile cars and the parts alone are about $4k to service the chain. The labor is much more intensive too!!

Chains fail too, I think most to the traditional chain system cars came from an era where we did not drive as much as we do today.

Although I did have a timing chain failure on my 1967 Camaro (made lots of noise and I had to replace it, but no bent valve issue)

Mark Hubley

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the rear hatch. With normal use (opening and closing it) the glass has separated from the frame on (I expect) nearly all of these cars, and it didn't take 20 years. In my opinion, this was the result of a flawed design, and meets the criteria for calling it unreliable.

Having owned a 944 that I sold at 260K miles and 19 years of age, and now I own a 924S that has 58K miles and is 25 years old, I fixed or replaced many things. I would consider everything I dealt with other than the rear hatch to be maintenance or normal wear.

divil

Regarding the whole timing belt thing, it's blown out of proportion in America imo. In Europe timing belts are taken for granted, and the interval of 40K miles, while short, is not unheard of. I think there is a difference in mindset here - when I moved here from Ireland a few years ago I noticed a lot of people I'd talk to with VWs and Audis that had never heard of a timing belt and didn't have any idea they were driving a time bomb by not changing it.

Right now I'm changing mine, and honestly I don't see the issue - I have to replace a bunch of leaky seals and a water pump. The belt has to come off for that stuff anyway - doesn't cost much more to put a on a new one when reassembling. Hopefully next time it will be belts only, but then that will only take a few hours.

odurandina

everything.....

used clutch ? $100 dollars. new clutch, $800~1000 ++

be great if this weren't the only part that needs replacing.

repairs ? 50~200 % more than other four cylinder cars.

preventative maintenance ? 500~700 % more than other four cylinder cars.


how many 944T's would be gone without Lart ?

that number is easily somewhere between 1,000 and infinity.


i just blew my clutch less than 24 hours after my AC delete was completed.

and less than 24 hours after claiming these cars aren't a bunch of money pits.....

anyone who can suggest the least-expensive manner in which to proceed.....

please pm or post.

Cole

The rear hatch is at least a failure of the bonding agent over time/use. Specifically at the top of the hatch.

I had the windshield replaced a few days ago and was talking to the tech about it. He seemed to think that if we tore it all the way apart and cleaned it very well that a more modern boding agent would probably hold it together. Most of the re-seal jobs people try to do is without taking it totally apart.

So the question is, design failure, or improper (not available at the time) material choice?

I personally have a hard time putting items like this in the "reliability column" since they don't leave you at the side of the road. Annoying? Yes! Could you still get in it and get to work on time with a bad hatch seal, sure!

Cole

Repairs are fairly in line with what the car cost new. Not fair to compare repair costs to a lesser car.

500-700%??? Hardly. Again, compare to similar cars, even across generations. A mid 2000 Audi or VW will cost you much more to maintain than this Porsche if you are following the specs.

Hell, the clutch for my truck costs more than for a 944. Weren't there guys using $7 clutch plates for the NA 944 from somewhere with great success? It's the 951 plate that gets more expensive. But how often do you really need to replace it?

Shawn Stanford

• IROC-Z - Not a fair comparison. The Camaro was what it was: an inexpensive pony car design, built and priced for the masses. But, for all that, the Z-28 - with it's GM parts-bin suspension - was C/D's 2nd best handling car in the world in the mid 80s. Behind the 944!
• Mustang - Another unfair comparison, since the Mustang was a totally different concept from the 944. Might as well compare the 944 to a Taurus.
• [IMG]The Vette of the era isn't a bad comparison, and I think it holds up quite well. I see far more 80s-era Vettes around than I do 80s Porsches of all types combined. And Vettes are going to be cheaper to obtain and maintain.
• 280z? A complete lump and unloved. I see more 240s and 260s than I do 280s. Now, the 300z was a serious car.
• Shelby Dodge - Another case of a cheap speed. These things weren't intended to last any length of time, and they didn't.
• Fiero - Hmm... The wildcard in the bunch. The Fiero had the potential to be a serious contender. It was slick looking, had a good motor and at a decent price. It would have been interesting to see where Pontiac would have taken it if GM hadn't put a bullet into it right when it was really getting good.

As far as my contribution to the original subject: I would not hesitate to take my 87 951 anywhere. My mileage is in the high 60s and the only non-maintenance issue I've experienced in the 12k I've added is that the power steering rack let go and needed to be rebuilt. But, even though my mileage is low, we're talking about 25 year-old rubber. Other than that: no problems whatsoever. (*knock knock*)

TexasRider

It is at least telling that there is even a conversation about reliablity of 20-30 year old cars. Sure mine had more than a few issues over the years but go find those other 3 on my previous post and lets see how they held up. They were in the crusher long ago I am sure.

I also got a great Eddie Bauer Bronco full size in 1986. It was the first of many that I had and sadly ending in 1996. I later got my son a 1996 Texas Final Edition. He was not as soft on cars as his Dad but it withstood some abuse that the Porsche did not see.

The Bronco and the Porsches are still desireable cars from the 1980's . Maybe some Vettes and Lotus's but not too many more on my list from the 1980s and I was there !

TexasRider

^^^^^^ OT ^^^^^^

Shawn while you are here - I saw one of your posts about the Cayenne - you know the one - did you ever get a Cayenne??

odurandina

i felt i was being generous.

odurandina

a Fiero with an n/a 231 Buick motor...

Cole

The real issue with the Fiero was that Toyota/Lotus was killing them with the MR2! It was faster, handled better, had better reliability, nicer options, and cost was near the same. Granted there were more Fieros sold but the quality was just not there compared to the MR2.

It should be noted that nearly all 2 seater sports cars went away for a few years in the mid 90s.