possible?
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AutoX
Joined: Apr 2012
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possible?
Just wondering if anyone ever built a 944/951 2.5L engine with twin-charging, itbs, and variocam... and Is this possible with a stock bay or only with a tubular front end? I'd be more interested in acceleration vs top speed. Frank Profera's lotus elise has a twin-charged 1.8L putting out 680 hp:
. Do our cars have that kind of potential with similar mods?
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,769
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From: Palm Beach, Florida
Anything is possible with $$$'s, that's all it takes.
The factory produced the Turbo RS in the 90's which was a 2.5L 4cyl with single turbo, itb's and no variacam 450hp. Going to extremes BMW produced a 1.5L 4cyl in the 80's producing 1300hp. Both of these were race engines with plenty of cash thrown at them. How deep are your pockets?
Turbo RS:
BMW M12/13:
The factory produced the Turbo RS in the 90's which was a 2.5L 4cyl with single turbo, itb's and no variacam 450hp. Going to extremes BMW produced a 1.5L 4cyl in the 80's producing 1300hp. Both of these were race engines with plenty of cash thrown at them. How deep are your pockets?
Turbo RS:
BMW M12/13:
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 169
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From: Calgary North
Take a look at this CL Mass. ad for a '95 968 Cabriolet... mmmm....TURBO....
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/2909199178.html
If wishes were horses...I'd have this 968 in my stable.
Cheers!
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/2909199178.html
If wishes were horses...I'd have this 968 in my stable.
Cheers!
Thread Starter
AutoX
Joined: Apr 2012
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Sure, anything's possible BUT would it be within a reasonable budget? Also with the 968trs the problem would be lag since it is a single turbo.. right? Can 951 engines be fitted with variocam from the 968s or would turbocharging 968 engines be the only option? Say for example I have a 951S and I want variocam, itbs, twincharging, and the dual stage fuel system. Anyone have an estimate to how much that would cost with stock turbo and say for example 4-5k for itbs? Remember, just looking for the best acceleration and throttle response.
Lets say I have like 20k to throw around and I'm really stingy (I really don't. Just for reference). What could I get away with spending the least amount of money?
Lets say I have like 20k to throw around and I'm really stingy (I really don't. Just for reference). What could I get away with spending the least amount of money?
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,769
Likes: 304
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Sure, anything's possible BUT would it be within a reasonable budget? Not for the numbers and mods you are talking about. Also with the 968trs the problem would be lag since it is a single turbo.. right? Zero lag at the rpm range that engine was designed to run at.Can 951 engines be fitted with variocam from the 968s or would turbocharging 968 engines be the only option? Say for example I have a 951S and I want variocam, itbs, twincharging, and the dual stage fuel system. Anyone have an estimate to how much that would cost with stock turbo and say for example 4-5k for itbs? Remember, just looking for the best acceleration and throttle response. Lets say I have like 20k to throw around and I'm really stingy (I really don't. Just for reference). What could I get away with spending the least amount of money?
You are basically looking to build a drag car correct? Not the best platform to start with a 951, it's not designed for such and there will be lots of cash needed apart from the engine such as upgrade transmission, suspension, axles, etc. If all you want is acceleration and not top speed think lighter and gearing.
My advise, speak to one of the engine builders here and tell them exactly what you want to acheive with the car. They will tell you the cost, but from what your talking about $20k will get you nowhere near your goals.
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AutoX
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Not exactly... Just looking for low end power (below 3000rpm). Horsepower is not really a concern as I believe the 951s has enough to keep me happy, but that's only above 3000 on boost. I understand with the mods come more hp and that's great but it should be noted that the goal here is to increase low end power; not insane horsepower.
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Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,769
Likes: 304
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Not exactly... Just looking for low end power (below 3000rpm). Horsepower is not really a concern as I believe the 951s has enough to keep me happy, but that's only above 3000 on boost. I understand with the mods come more hp and that's great but it should be noted that the goal here is to increase low end power; not insane horsepower.
I have LR 340hp kit in my 951 and I am very happy with it, but there are many options you can choose from to get you were you want to be:
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/951PACK340.html
Thread Starter
AutoX
Joined: Apr 2012
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LM7.. as in the GM engine? Engine swaps are great and super effective but it just seems too ... universal. It seems like everyone's dropping in GM V8's in all the "underpowered" imports and it's awesome. It does the job and it's cheap. BUT then at the end of the day... everyone's driving the same car with a different body. I really want to keep the 951 well... a 951(but better).
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Likes: 2
From: Auckland, NZ
To answer your question at face value - yes, all of that is possible. To twincharge you'd have to mount the turbo at the front on the exhaust side and that means at the least ditching the popup lights, moving the oil filter to a remote mount, and moving the power steering fluid reservoir. Once all that's done, there's quite a bit of space there, but the plumbing is still going to be tricky.
Your supercharger mounts where everyone else has mounted one, on the intake side. As I understand it, to get the best output you want to run the supercharger until the big turbo comes on boost, so I'd guess a compact centrifugal supercharger geared to reach max boost at 3k or 4k rpm would meet that criteria - then the big turbo takes over. What would be cool here is a variable vane arrangement to minimise the exhaust restriction while the supercharger works, then seamlessly switch over.
This is the problem with twincharging - complexity. Plumbing everywhere, complex management, insanely complex tuning.
But you just have to look at some of the hillclimb lancia S4's go to understand the appeal.
And has been done on a "home" budget.
Your supercharger mounts where everyone else has mounted one, on the intake side. As I understand it, to get the best output you want to run the supercharger until the big turbo comes on boost, so I'd guess a compact centrifugal supercharger geared to reach max boost at 3k or 4k rpm would meet that criteria - then the big turbo takes over. What would be cool here is a variable vane arrangement to minimise the exhaust restriction while the supercharger works, then seamlessly switch over.
This is the problem with twincharging - complexity. Plumbing everywhere, complex management, insanely complex tuning.
But you just have to look at some of the hillclimb lancia S4's go to understand the appeal.
And has been done on a "home" budget.
Last edited by bad_monkey; Apr 24, 2012 at 04:55 AM. Reason: found more relevant material on timewastingtube
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Likes: 2
From: Auckland, NZ
The loop over the top on the 9ff exhaust manifold is clever, and oil filter still in place. But they did have to tilt the engine upright...
At least they put the turbo on the correct side. And not under the intake.
At least they put the turbo on the correct side. And not under the intake.
