FRporscheman

Oh it is? What part is different for the offset change, the hubs?

MAGK944

The offset is changed by the hubs at the rear and the control arms at the front.

FRporscheman

Cool, thanks.

I went by the alignment shop and the owner and I went under the car. He says the bushings all look good, the installation was done right, and the entire assembly looks clean and proper, but the torsion bar carrier itself is bent.

He also said that even though he moved the toe to the maximum of the adjustment, it's still off by 2 inches on each side (one side a little less than the other). I didn't ask what he meant by 2 inches, I'm guessing 2" at the leading edge of the tire, but maybe he meant the trailing arm needs to slide on the spring plate by another 2 inches. Either way, the bottom line is I need a new torsion bar carrier, so the whole damn thing has to come out again. Yay.

I could run a search, but if someone can just tell me the answer it would make my life easier: Is the '84 torsion bar carrier interchangeable with the '86? I.e. can I put my '84 carrier back in, and use the '86 trailing arms, spring plates, shocks, and axles?

On a side note, if anyone wants a torsion bar carrier that will allow for high positive rear toe (racers?) I'll let it go for cheap!

MAGK944

I'm sceptical as I cannot see how you can bend that thing without it showing any physical damage. How did he determine the tb carrier was bent? How did he examine the bushes? Those spring plate and front mounting bushes are somewhat hidden to inspection. Are you certain it's not the front tb carrier mounting point bushes as if they were worn the carrier would not sit right and may look bent or not parallel to the body. The spring plate bushes would also have a similar effect and push the tb's forward or backward causing a toe problem at the wheels. I've looked at one of my spare set-ups and tried to figure what could go wrong to cause your problem and a bent tb carrier seems very unlikely. Never seen one and I've taken lots of these apart. I've put one on some stands and will investigate further:

FRporscheman

Thanks Mike, you've been helping me a lot and I really appreciate it.

He said it was curved by looking at it, and I noticed that too when I had it on the ground, but I thought it was an illusion. I don't know how he inspected the bushings, my guess would be visual and prying.

When I had it out, I looked at all the bushings including the hard to see spring plate to tb bushing, and those were cracked, but so were the ones on the tb carrier I pulled out, and that one felt fine, so I decided to just go with it. Even if these being bad allows the torsion bars to move forward and cause toe-in, then they'd just shift back when the wheel/hub is pulled back manually. The alignment guy said he usually adjusts toe by pulling on the arm rather than using the tool, and no amount of pulling would make it straight (and he felt no looseness). The spring plate piece looked centered when I had it out too.

He was saying he couldn't possibly think of how a tb carrier could bend, and that he's never seen one either. So either there's something epicly strange that happened to it, or it's not really the tb carrier and he couldn't figure it out. Either way I'm getting the car back tomorrow (didn't have a ride today) and I'll get it back on jack stands.

FRporscheman

I did a little research, and I'm not 100% convinced but one person (m758) said an early tb carrier can be used with '86 aluminum trailing arms, but the spring plates must also be '86. I checked PET, and all 85.5+ spring plates are the same. So if I decide to replace the tb carrier, I'll buy '85.5-up spring plates for my '84 tb carrier and use that.

That '84 setup is worthless now, I'm never going back to the early setup, so I might as well make it useful.

jharding

83-84 is different from 86. I went though that on my 83. The spring plates from an 86 torsion carrier will not bolt up to early trailing arms (at least they do not fit an 83). And due to that minor (okay major) screw up on my part I now have a torsion carrier assembly from an 86 (with torsion bars and spring plates intact, no trailing arms). Let me know if you want it cheap, although shipping to the left coast might be cost prohibitive.

FRporscheman

But do you think it would work if you had 86 trailing arms, 86 spring plates, on an 84 carrier?

FRporscheman

Left wheel


Right wheel


Torsion bar carrier removed from car



Note how off-center the torsion bar is.

FRporscheman

F*$& that POS.

I left the trailing arms in the car, held up with jacks, so I didn't have to take out the axles and disconnect the brake lines. I hate CV grease and brake fluid getting on my hands. I never tried it this way before.

OK, any racers or drifters want a setup with MAD rear toe-in?

MAGK944

Glad you found the problem but wow, how did you not notice that when you fitted it?

FRporscheman

Haha, I know, I know. I did notice it but I really didn't think it was possible to bend that tube, so I figured it was either supposed to be bent like that, or it was just an illusion (all the tabs, arms, etc making it appear bent).

For future reference, the '84 and '86 torsion bar carriers have the same part number cast into them. 477 171 A
Also, both setups have the same size torsion bars, I measured them with my cheap digital caliper as 23.55mm


Here are pics of my '84 tb carrier. Does it look straight to you?



Spring plates: '84 on the left, '86 on the right




Mike (or anyone), could you get me this measurement? I just want to make sure my '84 tb carrier hasn't bent while in storage in the upright position. I measured 38 and 27/32 inches.

shortyboy

im contemplating on rebuilding my 87' 951 front and rear suspension and installing it onto my '86 951. How hard was the rear suspension install?

FRporscheman

I just want to make sure you know - that will change the offset. Are you going to swap everything over completely?

The rear suspension is actually pretty easy, considering how major of a part it is. There are a few parts that can be annoying:
- dealing with the emergency brake cable
- getting the new suspension to sit exactly where the old one did (using the dirt outlines) (maybe you don't care)
- you'll need to bleed the brakes

Just take your time and follow the directions, and you should get through it fine.

Hollywood D

Wow that sure is bent. Did it come out of a wrecked car?