Fikse Wheels

For track use most of the 944/968 I have outfit with wheels in a square or as close to square as possible. This is usually 17x9 or 18x9 all around or 9" front 10" rear.

Cole

Wow...there is a blanket statement.

So many variables involved in this. Tire temps, pressures, etc etc.

So we should all just run square with bicycle tires then?


The more tire you can get in contact with the road at a given angle the better it will stickin most cases. I've spent nearly 20 years on teaching on racetracks. Wider helps the grip in many ways, Heat dissipation, contact, etc.

I've read the theories against super wide tires, the trick is that there is a breakpoint for every car, weight, tire, wheel set up.

I can tell you that with the same brand tires my 225s slide around the track and produce massive wheelspin up the hill at High Plains Rceway, where my 265s don't!!

Cole

Another blanket BS statement. Not every track car on earth performs best with a square set up!

Hell, if square was always best for performance handling why does Porsche continue to make staggered wheel set ups for their cars? (and wider and wider at that's, hell, the GTRS, Porsches factory track day car comes with a 235 front and 305 rear.....but I'm sure that was an oversight. Staggering with such wide tires must make the things slip all over the place and handle like crap)

Dubai944

Some questionable comments here. You can setup a staggered tire arrangement to understeer, oversteer or be neutral and you can do the same with a square tire setup just as easily. You need to look at spring rates to do it properly.

Square setup is convenient for tire rotation and if it addresses a too small front tire to start with then great.

For a track car with enough power you might as well set it up with as much rubber as you are allowed under the rules. If you do that on a 944 you wil end up with a staggered setup simply because you can fit more rubber in the rear. I run 11s in the front and 12s in the rear. 11s are about the limit on the front for me. The only reason I don't run 13s or bigger in the rear is available tires in the sizes I want.

bad_monkey

The whole "wider does/doesn't equal more grip" thing gets opinionated really quick, but looking at your examples, you see drag cars and formula cars running as wide a tire as possible where grip is needed. I know there are a whole heap of other factors - but increasing width or diameter increases the potential contact patch. What you do with it is up to you.

As for staggered vs. square being "better" I think it's subjective - down to how you like the car to react - what gets you 'round the corners faster, what helps you keep it out of the hedge... In other words "better" is what you can do with it.

Paulyy

IMO if money wasn't an issue, id fit the widest tires that fit at all corners.

you cannot compare the 911 to a 924/944/968 since the weight on a 911 isn not 50/50 like our cars the handling will be a lot different with the tyre setups. and IICR the 911 have over steering issues hence the wide rear tires.

Cole

I did not read any comparisons. Just showing the modern engineering phylosophy of Prosche is still "wide and staggered".

But you could insert about any modern high end sports car and find the same thing. Ferrari, Lamborghini, even the lower end of Corvettes and Mustangs

f1rocks

The original question was from a 944 N/A driver who will sometimes run on the track and spend the majority of time on the street. It would appear that he has a budget.

On a 944 N/A, and yes I too have experience on several race tracks and have spent several years teaching car control..... GIVEN: His circumstance and particular car a square setup will make a very stable and economical platform. Allowing to rotate tires and still give the perfect balance with a couple bar modifications.

Putting big wide tires on a 944 NA will actually make him slower as the aero drag and added contact patch is significantly different between a 225 and a 285. And the tendency to scrub off too much speed with big tires will make lap times slower.

Now if he were driving a Turbo S, I'd suggest differently......

Cole

Suppose some of that is going to depend on the track. There are some where even the 944 NA can get up to speeds where it can benefit from a fatter tire.

As far as looks, I really prefer the look of a staggered car. So much so that I think the extra coin is worth it.

f1rocks

I run Daytona, Sebring, Road Atlanta, Brainerd, Road America......some of the fastest tracks in the US. At a whopping 135 RWHP the most I've ever seen on my GPS based Data logging system was 136 MPH at Daytona. With no side windows and the best "aero" package I can legally make, that is about as fast as you will see for speed. Using 225 or 245 rubber at any of the fast tracks is all you will need. The car drifts wonderfully through the corners, I'd love to run Hoosiers (even then at 245) and get an instant 2 seconds a lap faster but for now the SP1/RA1 requirement is economical enough.

Now for looks, absolutely a staggered bigger rear tire but on an NA.....it's not appreciably faster given our HP/Weight ratio. I have spent hours fine tuning suspensions based on the specific track. It's almost always starts with stiffening or softening the rear end to match the front and rear grip.

Cole

What does top sped have to do with any of this?

There are tracks where even. Short straight that leads into a tight corner could benefit from wider rubber. Or a transition thats fast and choppy but top "speed" is numerically low.

Even on an autocross course you might give up 1-2mph in a straight but be albe to carry more speed all the way though a corner!

Cole

Another wordy, well put together, and educated response I see!

f1rocks

Okay, you were the one that first brought up "getting up to speeds...."

I guess we can disagree on this, but for an economical yet good performing package.....square works well for a NA 944 and when I'm using a set of race tires every two race weekends, I'm happy its not every weekend because I can't rotate them.