Would it be fair to say that Porsche hates the 944?
08-18-2011, 02:20 AM
#16
Late Porkchops
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I have said it many times.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
08-18-2011, 02:38 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Not sure WHICH dealer in Richmond, but my NA used to goto Euroclassics Porsche on Midlothian turnpike once a month or so..
And they loved it.. 2 of the master techs there had 951s... great to work with, and never had any issues other than them trying to convince me my car would burn to the ground with 18 inch wheels on it..
And they loved it.. 2 of the master techs there had 951s... great to work with, and never had any issues other than them trying to convince me my car would burn to the ground with 18 inch wheels on it..
if i needed something done that i couldn't handle i'd just take it to Delta V near the stadium.... (which is still the Braves stadium and not that other team... what a stupid name...
)
08-18-2011, 03:35 AM
#18
Professional Hoon
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I have said it many times.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
Boxter
Cayman
Panamera
Cayenne
and lets not forget the carrera gt and the 959 that are one of the best porsches ever made...
arnt "real" porsches... just the 911s are "real" porsches
oh wait the first ever porsche was the 356 which isn't a 911...
08-18-2011, 03:48 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
I have said it many times.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
When 911 guys tell me that my 951 is not a "real Porsche" I always say
"It costs like a real Porsche."
I just like the front engine car better. And I like the 951.
If I didnt have that I did see a super nice new Boxster Spyder at the dealer. Those arent real Porsches either. Of course I was looking at a Cayenne for my wife. Those arent real Porsches either. And my friend went along and he is ordering a Panamera. Those arent real Porsches either.
So you see I am not likely to ever be let into the "Real Porsche" side anyway.
My favorite is when people (usually not Porsche owners at all) say it's the "poor-man's Porsche"... where did that start? I mean, first the 951 cost nearly as much as an entry-level 911 when it was new. Regardless as to whether or not the 911 cost more, the 951 was rather incredibly expensive in it's time... furthermore, all Porsche's will eat your wallet without warning. The real "poor-man's Porsche" is sitting on my desk, and it's made by Hot Wheels!
08-18-2011, 03:53 AM
#20
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My favorite is when people (usually not Porsche owners at all) say it's the "poor-man's Porsche"... where did that start? I mean, first the 951 cost nearly as much as an entry-level 911 when it was new. Regardless as to whether or not the 911 cost more, the 951 was rather incredibly expensive in it's time... furthermore, all Porsche's will eat your wallet without warning. The real "poor-man's Porsche" is sitting on my desk, and it's made by Hot Wheels!
The porsche 924 was called the poor mans porsche. but alot of people thing its the 944 also and probably dont know the difference and yes the 951s where expencive!!
08-18-2011, 09:47 AM
#22
Drifting
Dealer technicians get paid book hours at an hourly rate much lower than the shop rate.
To make money, they beat book rates and move to the next, and next, jobs. In some shops, shortcuts are so rampant that quality is compromised. I swear to you that the pressure is so high that sometimes parts are not put on the cars, instead, are discarded.
Older stuff is very, very time consuming, if for no other reason the fact that the cadence and motions and tools are unfamiliar. So the terrible joke is on the technician that gets assigned the old car, usually the young guy. The bay is tied-up, the technician is tied up and the profit is lower to dealership and technician.
Makes DIY attractive, doesn't it!
To make money, they beat book rates and move to the next, and next, jobs. In some shops, shortcuts are so rampant that quality is compromised. I swear to you that the pressure is so high that sometimes parts are not put on the cars, instead, are discarded.
Older stuff is very, very time consuming, if for no other reason the fact that the cadence and motions and tools are unfamiliar. So the terrible joke is on the technician that gets assigned the old car, usually the young guy. The bay is tied-up, the technician is tied up and the profit is lower to dealership and technician.
Makes DIY attractive, doesn't it!
.
08-18-2011, 10:59 AM
#23
Although I've owned several Porsches including 911s, I found that the most fun to drive ones were the 944 and the 914 mainly due to its dynamic balance. Surely, the 911 prestige is strong; but for the true enthusiast, there are more prestigious Porsches above the 911. For the uninitiated (and judgmental), just refer them to what cars are on display in the Porsche museum.
If I can only have one car to drive, a street 911 would be a top candidate as a jack-of-all-trades car. I'm glad I have the opportunity to have more than one car...
If I can only have one car to drive, a street 911 would be a top candidate as a jack-of-all-trades car. I'm glad I have the opportunity to have more than one car...
08-18-2011, 11:21 AM
#24
I found a photo of Derek Bell during one of the vintage race events I attended (this was Laguna Seca when Porsche was featured marque). He offered to sign a magazine I had with an article of him. We talked briefly and he mentioned his 924 Carrera GT (apparently one of his favorites) that he has originally owned and still owns since winning 24H of Le Mans in the late 70s/early 80s. Coming from a long time ex-Porsche factory race driver and multi-Le Mans winner, this is very telling. See photo below. I also have a photo of his red Carrera GT parked in Goodwood a couple of years ago, but I can't find that one.
During my time in professional motorsports, I also talked with several pro drivers. I did not meet anybody who mentions that the 911 is their favorite car or race car for that matter. In fact, sometimes the opinions were quite the opposite.
Don't let marketing and the crowd rule your choices. Be your own person.
During my time in professional motorsports, I also talked with several pro drivers. I did not meet anybody who mentions that the 911 is their favorite car or race car for that matter. In fact, sometimes the opinions were quite the opposite.
Don't let marketing and the crowd rule your choices. Be your own person.
08-18-2011, 12:06 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Though we had to liberate a (nice) 928 from their shop there for a simple $120 alignment.
Claimed it needed $400 worth of eccentrics.
Fortunately we knew more than them and weren't taken. Took it over to Sears' Hunter 400, got under the car with the tech, and were out in 60 minutes for $69.99
And they had been bragging, too, about their skill at actually removing and replacing the CE panel on a 928 --- huge job that cost the customer over $1000. Which I can do in about 18 minutes.
At least you've established a good relationship with them -- which clearly pays dividends if you can achieve it.
BTW, who owns that forlorn 951 sitting behind the dumpster? I've bought one car out of that backlot from a customer, but can't seem to extract the information on that one.
08-18-2011, 12:30 PM
#26
The selfish things that comes out of peoples mouths at times because they just want to hate.
I 've heard:
The 944 is the poor man's Porsche...
The 944 aint nothing but a souped up VW...
I say:
Ya ya ya...shut up already!
I don't see you driving one!
I don't see you owning one!
I don't see you servicing one!
I 've heard:
The 944 is the poor man's Porsche...
The 944 aint nothing but a souped up VW...
I say:
Ya ya ya...shut up already!
I don't see you driving one!
I don't see you owning one!
I don't see you servicing one!
08-18-2011, 12:39 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Your comments about dealers not wanted to work on 944s I think as mentioned earlier is having the mechanics that have the knowledge to work on them and toruble shoot them competently. Some of the new mechanics today are not really mechanics put part replacers (big difference in my mind). Plus they have no training on our cars. If they don't have training on them I could understand not wanting to work on them.
My local Dealer Has some good mechanics that have been working on Porsches for years and have no issues with my 944. Heck they even have some special tools that they made themselves make some jobs that are suppsoed to take 4 hours take about 25 min. (The fan sensor on radiator for example).
By the way My dad is a pure 911 guy ('86 3.2 and now a 2010 GT3) yet he still finds my car fun to drive. (and he is still in denial that his 997 is water cooled) And for some reason I seem to Dream about Cayman R and not 911s.
My local Dealer Has some good mechanics that have been working on Porsches for years and have no issues with my 944. Heck they even have some special tools that they made themselves make some jobs that are suppsoed to take 4 hours take about 25 min. (The fan sensor on radiator for example).
By the way My dad is a pure 911 guy ('86 3.2 and now a 2010 GT3) yet he still finds my car fun to drive. (and he is still in denial that his 997 is water cooled) And for some reason I seem to Dream about Cayman R and not 911s.
08-18-2011, 12:40 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
The 944 does not belong at a dealership. In fact any car out of "Factory Warranty" does not belong at the Dealership!
Lots of Great Points in this post; Training, Book Time, and Parts Availability are the reasons Dealerships Don't want to touch 944s or older cars in general.
I'll say that I would be laughing too though... "We're are going to charge him more in Labor than this car is worth!"
I 'accidentally' took my car to a Really Nice Race Shop when i first got it; They worked on it with no problem... I needed tires, but had them do the Belts, Front Seals, and Rollers too... $2,500 later!! Grrrrrrrr
Half the Value of the Car, and subsequently the water pump seized two months later and i re-did all the work i just paid to have done..
Moral of the Story; 944s do not belong in a shop.. I Own it, I Drive it, and I Repair it!
Lots of Great Points in this post; Training, Book Time, and Parts Availability are the reasons Dealerships Don't want to touch 944s or older cars in general.
I'll say that I would be laughing too though... "We're are going to charge him more in Labor than this car is worth!"
I 'accidentally' took my car to a Really Nice Race Shop when i first got it; They worked on it with no problem... I needed tires, but had them do the Belts, Front Seals, and Rollers too... $2,500 later!! Grrrrrrrr
Half the Value of the Car, and subsequently the water pump seized two months later and i re-did all the work i just paid to have done..
Moral of the Story; 944s do not belong in a shop.. I Own it, I Drive it, and I Repair it!
08-18-2011, 12:49 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
oh and though i Love my 944:
Rear Engine/Rear Drive has defined Porsche since well... **** Germany "The People's car" and I hope it continues it's legacy!
I mean no other car is Rear Engine (behind Rear Axle) and Rear Drive! Different is Cool, and Interesting!
Rear Engine/Rear Drive has defined Porsche since well... **** Germany "The People's car" and I hope it continues it's legacy!
I mean no other car is Rear Engine (behind Rear Axle) and Rear Drive! Different is Cool, and Interesting!
08-18-2011, 01:33 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
My two favorite decals seen on track cars are:
Notwendigkeit keine dumm hintere Maschine - Don't need no stupid rear engine
nicht brauchen keine stinkenden turbo - Don't need no smelly turbo
The first one was on a 944T and it was kicking 911 ***!
Notwendigkeit keine dumm hintere Maschine - Don't need no stupid rear engine
nicht brauchen keine stinkenden turbo - Don't need no smelly turbo
The first one was on a 944T and it was kicking 911 ***!