Stuck Torque Tube While Replacing Clutch
07-21-2011, 04:02 AM
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Stuck Torque Tube While Replacing Clutch
Hi Everyone,
We are working on replacing our clutch and flywheel on our 85' 944. We are at the step where the torque tube is just supposed to "slide out". We aren't sure if its just severely rusted on but we can't get it to slide out at all, it feels like its almost bolted in. The transmission is dropped and the whole torque tube housing is loose and hanging, we can rotate it quite a bit but no matter how hard we pull and jar and hammer on it, it won't come loose. We tried removing all the bolts on the pressure plate by rotating the engine and undoing each bolt one by one (turns out two were missing)
This gave us a couple of millimeters more than we had.
Does anyone have any ideas on how we can possibly get the torque tube out? We did the Clarks Garage procedure and looked at others as well, all of them make it sound like unless the torque tube is severely rusted it should just slide out. Our car has sat for probably 7 years so we are assuming that things are very rusted, is there anyway to get some spray lubricant on the splines of the torque tube?
Any ideas would be appreciated, we are at our wits end here and I couldn't find any solutions on the forum.
We are working on replacing our clutch and flywheel on our 85' 944. We are at the step where the torque tube is just supposed to "slide out". We aren't sure if its just severely rusted on but we can't get it to slide out at all, it feels like its almost bolted in. The transmission is dropped and the whole torque tube housing is loose and hanging, we can rotate it quite a bit but no matter how hard we pull and jar and hammer on it, it won't come loose. We tried removing all the bolts on the pressure plate by rotating the engine and undoing each bolt one by one (turns out two were missing)
This gave us a couple of millimeters more than we had.Does anyone have any ideas on how we can possibly get the torque tube out? We did the Clarks Garage procedure and looked at others as well, all of them make it sound like unless the torque tube is severely rusted it should just slide out. Our car has sat for probably 7 years so we are assuming that things are very rusted, is there anyway to get some spray lubricant on the splines of the torque tube?
Any ideas would be appreciated, we are at our wits end here and I couldn't find any solutions on the forum.
07-21-2011, 08:21 AM
#2
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So, the torque tube is rotating relative to the bell housing, but you think the drive shaft splines are rusted to the clutch disk?
How about put the transmission coupler back on the rear of the drive shaft and use a sizable slide hammer to "pull" the drive shaft out of the clutch?
How about put the transmission coupler back on the rear of the drive shaft and use a sizable slide hammer to "pull" the drive shaft out of the clutch?
07-21-2011, 10:57 AM
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Have you tried giving the shaft a pop (towards the motor) from the transaxle end? Sometimes a knocking it inward will help release the rust. Also, if the engine mounts are sagging and the engine is not supported, it will be cockeyed enough to put pressure on the shaft making it hard to slide it back.
07-21-2011, 01:44 PM
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I forgot to mention that the reason we started replacing the clutch was because we can't seem to get it to disengage. That could me important information... I don't know.
Regardless, we did try tapping on the shaft towards the engine a bit but not too aggressively. We have the engine jacked up from the oil pan and we have tried changing the angle a few times and pulling.
The torque tube is rotating relative to the bell housing but yes it seems like its rusted completely to the clutch and won't slide out. We aren't sure how we can put any more pressure on it without causing damage to something.
Regardless, we did try tapping on the shaft towards the engine a bit but not too aggressively. We have the engine jacked up from the oil pan and we have tried changing the angle a few times and pulling.
The torque tube is rotating relative to the bell housing but yes it seems like its rusted completely to the clutch and won't slide out. We aren't sure how we can put any more pressure on it without causing damage to something.
07-21-2011, 02:07 PM
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We did get some pb blast between the torque tube and the clutch housing and let it sit overnight. Also, when we changed the angle at which the TT hits the clutch housing by raising and lowering the engine with the floor jack, we did get a few more millimeters but nothing significant.
It also seems that when we pull on the TT, the outside tube seems to pull, but the inner tube(the one that actually rotates with the engine) doesnt seem to move.
It also seems that when we pull on the TT, the outside tube seems to pull, but the inner tube(the one that actually rotates with the engine) doesnt seem to move.
07-21-2011, 03:43 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Sounds like you have an unusual situation. Is the starter installed still? Perhaps Dropping the motor may be in your future. The engines go down and out through the wheel well so you may be able to remove torque tube and all? Then you could remove the bell housing,pressure plate (if you can get to the bolts) and clutch and fork, tube all as one???
just my .02
just my .02
07-21-2011, 04:47 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
It's not just hitting on the Torsion Bar Tube right?? <--- I know this sounds stupid.... but there are two hooks on the Torque Tube, and Two on the Torsion Bar Assembly; you have to rotate the whole torque tube in order clear these hooks...
http://www.elephantracing.com/images...uetubenubs.jpg
Sorry if is like a 'No Duh' post.
http://www.elephantracing.com/images...uetubenubs.jpg
Sorry if is like a 'No Duh' post.
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07-21-2011, 04:59 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
When installing I found the best way to get the torque tube in the last inch and aligned with the rear bearing is to pump the clutch while working the tube in. This might be worth a try to get that thing out also.
Very strange that the tube moves but not the shaft. That shaft takes some bashing to get out of the tube. If it moves that easily you might want to change your torque tube bearings and bushings while you have the thing out.
Very strange that the tube moves but not the shaft. That shaft takes some bashing to get out of the tube. If it moves that easily you might want to change your torque tube bearings and bushings while you have the thing out.
07-21-2011, 05:18 PM
#9
Could someone have played with the clutch pedal adjustments and move the adjustment so far that it's like the pedal is pressed in all the way to the floor, this would put a lot of pressure on the shaft that might keep it stuck.
When I had my clutch changed some years ago, they had the same problem, took him a couple of hours to pull out the TT.
I didn't see it, have you removed the slave cylinder?
When I had my clutch changed some years ago, they had the same problem, took him a couple of hours to pull out the TT.
I didn't see it, have you removed the slave cylinder?
07-21-2011, 05:27 PM
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I call the outer tube (the iron part) the torque tube or TT, and I call the inner shaft (the splined steel shaft) the driveshaft. Some things that could cause this are the pilot bearing being stuck to the front tip of the driveshaft, or the clutch disc being stuck on the front splines of the driveshaft.
I think it's your clutch, because unbolting the PP gave you a few mm. So just slide the TT as far back as you can, and wedge something between the front of the TT and the back of the bellhousing (so the TT can't move forward again).
Now give the back end of the driveshaft a few hard whacks. Don't hit the shaft itself - take the coupler from the tranny and bolt that onto the driveshaft, then hit the end of that with a block of wood and a big hammer. If you hit the end of the shaft directly, you could deform the tip and cause it to bulge - the coupler would never go back on.
Whether or not the shaft moves, after every few hits, see if the tube will slide back.
You're limited in how much you can hammer it forward because the tip of the driveshaft is inside the pilot bearing, which is pressed into the back end of the crank shaft, so hitting the driveshaft forward will just bottom it out and possibly hurt something. Hitting it backward should be fine, if you can even get a good angle to hit it.
I think it's your clutch, because unbolting the PP gave you a few mm. So just slide the TT as far back as you can, and wedge something between the front of the TT and the back of the bellhousing (so the TT can't move forward again).
Now give the back end of the driveshaft a few hard whacks. Don't hit the shaft itself - take the coupler from the tranny and bolt that onto the driveshaft, then hit the end of that with a block of wood and a big hammer. If you hit the end of the shaft directly, you could deform the tip and cause it to bulge - the coupler would never go back on.
Whether or not the shaft moves, after every few hits, see if the tube will slide back.
You're limited in how much you can hammer it forward because the tip of the driveshaft is inside the pilot bearing, which is pressed into the back end of the crank shaft, so hitting the driveshaft forward will just bottom it out and possibly hurt something. Hitting it backward should be fine, if you can even get a good angle to hit it.
07-21-2011, 07:02 PM
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We are able to rotate the whole tube quite a bit and move it up and down, I don't recall looking at those hooks but we would have been able to get around them with how much we were moving the torque tube around. I'll keep an eye out for them next time I'm under the car.
Well the only reason it came out of the housing a bit was because we unbolted all the bolts on the pressure plate through the whole left by the starter. The idea was to then unbolt the clutch housing and try and pull everything out a bit to have a better look but unfortunately the bolts for the clutch housing were too tough to get to with the torque tube on.
I thought that might have been a possibility but we figured we should replace the clutch anyway and so didn't look into it before we started dissassembling. The slave cylinder is off now.
I think it's your clutch, because unbolting the PP gave you a few mm. So just slide the TT as far back as you can, and wedge something between the front of the TT and the back of the bellhousing (so the TT can't move forward again).
Now give the back end of the driveshaft a few hard whacks. Don't hit the shaft itself - take the coupler from the tranny and bolt that onto the driveshaft, then hit the end of that with a block of wood and a big hammer. If you hit the end of the shaft directly, you could deform the tip and cause it to bulge - the coupler would never go back on.
Whether or not the shaft moves, after every few hits, see if the tube will slide back.
You're limited in how much you can hammer it forward because the tip of the driveshaft is inside the pilot bearing, which is pressed into the back end of the crank shaft, so hitting the driveshaft forward will just bottom it out and possibly hurt something. Hitting it backward should be fine, if you can even get a good angle to hit it.
This seems like a good idea, we will try this and report. I was thinking we could do something similar with a slide hammer on that coupler so the force could be directed outward instead of inward.
Could someone have played with the clutch pedal adjustments and move the adjustment so far that it's like the pedal is pressed in all the way to the floor, this would put a lot of pressure on the shaft that might keep it stuck.
I didn't see it, have you removed the slave cylinder?
I didn't see it, have you removed the slave cylinder?
I think it's your clutch, because unbolting the PP gave you a few mm. So just slide the TT as far back as you can, and wedge something between the front of the TT and the back of the bellhousing (so the TT can't move forward again).
Now give the back end of the driveshaft a few hard whacks. Don't hit the shaft itself - take the coupler from the tranny and bolt that onto the driveshaft, then hit the end of that with a block of wood and a big hammer. If you hit the end of the shaft directly, you could deform the tip and cause it to bulge - the coupler would never go back on.
Whether or not the shaft moves, after every few hits, see if the tube will slide back.
You're limited in how much you can hammer it forward because the tip of the driveshaft is inside the pilot bearing, which is pressed into the back end of the crank shaft, so hitting the driveshaft forward will just bottom it out and possibly hurt something. Hitting it backward should be fine, if you can even get a good angle to hit it.
07-21-2011, 11:31 PM
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Also, while we were taking the transaxel down, I noticed the small plate on the side of the transaxel that was loose. I took it off to inspect it. After we got the transaxel completely removed from the car, the spring inside of it had protruded from the transaxel housing about an inch and it is very hard to push back in, and cannot bolt the plate back on. Anyone know any ideas to get it back on, or anything we can do to fix it? In the picture listed, its at the very top of the diagram above number 9.
07-22-2011, 01:58 AM
#14
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For me the transaxle is the final frontier - one day I'll learn what goes on inside and how to reassemble one, but for now all I can say is try moving the shift lever?