andys-944

Again diificult to say with out being there, my personal experiance is 944 is a very well balanced car so I guess your were trying to turn in to steeply for the speed / avaialble grip any car will understeer if ask to much. That said the first thing to look at if you think its a set up issue is front aligment both to much toe in or toe out will cause understeer.

whalebird

Go to the track ASAP.
For the car, ALL of the suspension bushings, shocks, and steering components need replacement more than likely. 924S sway bars are dreadfully small, and the stock spring rate is quite low.
It is a front engine car.

mikemyers924s

M758: Thanks for the great, and detailed response, you are right. I know a couple of semi pro drivers and I will seek their advice as to whether or not I actually have a handling problem.

As for sway bars/sway bar bushings, tires, and front struts, does anyone have suggestions or reviews of products they have experience with? I'm definitely in need of new tires, and thicker sway bars probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not experienced enough to understand how specific adjustments to sway bars would affect my car's handling. I'm definitely open to suggestions in this department.


How would I go about measuring and adjusting my front alignment and camber? I find vague references to this fairly often but I've yet to see a thread or article on "how to".
Thanks again guys!
-Mike.

andys-944

Any decent tire shop should be able to check alignment enough to identify a problem and they should have to hand the factory settings to hand.

Hollywood D

You were going too fast in the first place. Thats they the car pushed through the turn (and didnt really turn at all). Then when you hit the gas you just exacerbated the problem. To get the back end to kick out you need to be taking the turn correctly (read: not understeering), then hit the gas. Then don't hit the gas too much or you'll be into the ditch, or someone else's car.

M758

Mike I know plenty of parts and tricks to make a 944 or 924S corner well. However I am not at all convinced any of it will help without first fixing the driver.

I see this all the time with track guys that think it is their car holding them back. Most of the time the major issues are driver related.

pnbell

Too fast into a corner and the front tires will not do what you want them to (Wider Tires/Better Rubber is Needed) I too can make my car Over and Under Steer....

Remember:

When Accelerating the weight of the car shifts backwards onto the Rear tires, and off of the Front tires
*Coming into a corner like this will create a certain level of understeer because the front of the car has less traction

When Decelerating (or braking) the weight of the car shifts onto the Front tires, and off of the Rear tires
*Coming into a corner like this will create a certain level of oversteer because the rear of the car has less traction

^^ This is all very basic, and only skims the surface of the very large topic "Automotive Handling", but remember this while driving and you can correct (or create) Under/Oversteering.

***Something Fun I Do: (Don't try this at home Kids)
Easiest in 2nd gear at a 90 degree corner:
Accelerate quickly up to the corner
Start your turn and quickly let off the gas (weight will shift to the Front and OFF OF THE BACK)
The car will begin Oversteering
Right before you are pointed in the direction you want the car to go; Gently get on the gas and drive straight.
*Resume breathing and laugh; realizing you just did something stupid that could have easily wrecked your car...

Again: This is a Dangerous, Inefficient, and the Completely Incorrect way thru a corner;;;; But Pretty Fun!

.

mikemyers924s

^^^Lol yep been there! Does that work for you on dry pavement as well? So far no matter what I've done I haven't managed to oversteer or understeer my car much on dry pavement. (this is partially because I try not to throw my car around a lot on public streets)

You guys are all dead on when you say that I need to improve the driver. I'm aware of that, and come spring time I'll be hitting the track and autocrossing pretty hard. I'd just like to have a slightly more prepared car before I get there. I'm being stubborn because I know the suspension isn't quite right, and the camber and toe were not set by me.
Now that we have definitely communicated that I need to work on my car handling, could we talk about what you guys have seen produce helpful results in your cars? I'm not trying to make my car do the learning for me, I'd just like it to help.
For a 924s what would you choose for new tire width on the 15'' phonies?
or
what would be a decent replacement for the marshmallow like front suspension?
or
I know this is all personal preference, but what's a decent camber and toe setting for the front tires?

Hopefully I'll see some of you at the track this spring. Thanks!
-Mike.

M758

for Street use a good camber is -1.0 and toe at zero.

I use these settings on my 944 Turbo S street car.

I use the same toe on my race car, but alot more camber.

Also the car should be level front to rear as checked at the rockers. Nose up = understeer, Tail up = oversteer. Rear camber should be -0.5 to -1.0 and rear need toe in to counter the rear suspension movement under braking. 3/16 of toe in is good.

Tires should be the same size front and rear and set at simliar cold pressures. Maybe 1-2psi lower in the front for a street car. Those are the basics and beyond that you are looking and springs and sway bars. Stock should work fine and be balanced, but maybe the previous owner changed things away from stock and made the car worse.

Arominus

The stock 924s has no rear sway bar and is pretty sloppy due to this. I ended up with 24mm/18mm sways from an 86 turbo and it works well along with the konis all around. For the 15" wheels? Well your choices are limited, I ran dunlop direzzas on mine but hey where 6% to small and my speedo was way out of wack. They were 195/55 iirc. This year I'm switching to 16s with direzzas.

Work on your skills first then start making changes, every little thing I did changed how the car drove and its been a fun progression. That said I still need to tighten the nut behind the wheel. There's always room for the driver to improve.

pnbell

Yup! In fact: I usually only do that type of maneuver on Dry Pavement in corners I am VERY familiar with. I'm actually a pretty tame driver when the roads are slick... Again it's a risky move that can end very badly. Best learned at an Autocross event!

Nice All Season 15" Tires are Bridgeston Potenzas RE# Pole Positions; I have a set on 15" Phonies.

racer

Get an alignment done.. then go learn to drive better.. and when you think you are better, let someone else show you how much there might still be to learn.

Don't go overboard upgrading the car unless you know what your replacing is in fact, broken or needs replacement.

mikemyers924s

Awesome Thanks guys! This is exactly the stuff I've been hoping to learn. I will likely directly apply both the camber/alignment and tire advice within the next two weeks. Any more input is very welcome!
-Mike.