I have a 1988 951. I'd like to replace the US spec fog lights (the ones with the blank-out plate) with ROW (rest of world) lights that have both driving and fog lights. I also want to install a rear fog light in the left rear tail light assembly. I don't want to use aftermarket switches and I don't want to simply piggyback the rear fog lamp onto the rear lights, so hopefully someone from Europe (or in the US with a euro-spec car) could enlighten me with regard to how these lights are switched. Also, let me know if you've done such a retrofit.

Thanks,

 

Look for as thread on this begun by a question from me about 2 months ago. If you can't locate, email me, and I'll find the info (I copied it and kept it.)

Get yourself another foglight switch, by the way, to control the driving lights and get a clean, factory look. Ebay is a good sopurce, usually about $25. You'll need a relay, too, plus terminals (which you'll have to fabricate from the round end of regular terminals unless you can get the wiring with the switch from a wrecked car.)

It ends up being quite a job, just to warn you, but the results are well worth it with 100w bulbs in the driving lights.

Write me if you run into trouble or have questions. Someone from Rennlist stepped up to help me, and I'd be glad to repay the favor to you.

 

Uh, Chris, you've kind of stolen my screen name! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> It IS a clever choice, but I claimed it first! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

The 944/951/968 tail lights already have euro spec fog lights. You may even have the extra wires too. These are the "extra" empty lenses.

Many, myself included, have found extra sockets and wired these to the regular tail lights. Need to put lower wattage bulbs in them as the reflector really focuses the light to the rear giving drivers behind you the impression that you are riding your brakes.

 

[quote]The 944/951/968 tail lights already have euro spec fog lights <hr></blockquote>

yes & no. US brakelights are located into the spot where eurospec rear fog light is.On euro models brake lights are in the place where US specs drivinglights are.Euro models driving lights are located to the spot which is "blank" on US models.Confusing...?

 

[quote]Originally posted by Olli Snellman:
<strong>

yes & no. US brakelights are located into the spot where eurospec rear fog light is.On euro models brake lights are in the place where US specs drivinglights are.Euro models driving lights are located to the spot which is "blank" on US models.Confusing...? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Say what?

The reflector of the missing bulb section, below the back up light, is designed to reflect the light directly toward the rear just as add on fog tail lights do.

Put a socket and a bulb of the same wattage as the running light in it, wire to the red running light next to it and turn on the lights at night. Get about 50 meters back and this section will jump out at you. What's more interesting is that just the drivers side is wired in europe. The wires are there but not connected.

As to the running lights; it would make no sense to have running lights any where but on the outer corner of the car.

Wither the lower red or upper amber outer lens is used for a running light would depend on the vehicle codes for that country. Here we use the red as a running light and the amber as a turn signal.

Some paint their amber lenses red but this violates some state laws where only emergency vehicles can have a red blinking light to the rear, front or sides.

 

[quote]The reflector of the missing bulb section, below the back up light, is designed to reflect the light directly toward the rear just as add on fog tail lights do <hr></blockquote>

Might be as you described, but this is where euro spec cars have driving lights.
Fog light is located in left light assembly where US model have brake light.
I used to have euro spec '87 & now have US spec '88, so i know the differencies of these tail lights.
BTW since i have whole red lamps i have a wiring of my own specs...

 

greetings all!

OK - I did it this way. Your mileage may vary, but this works JUST like I want it to, which is:

1-each set of lights operates independently of each other
2-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the headlights on
3-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the high beams on
4-each set of lights operates only when the key is 'on'
5-each set flashes 'on' if they are 'off' and the high beam stalk is pulled
(driving on - fog off - pull stalk: both sets on. fog on - driving off - pull stalk: both on. both off - pull stalk: both on. both on - headlights on - pull stalk: all on w/high beams. OK - you get the idea.....)

Initially, I did the following modification, saved from 1997 PorscheFans list. Originally posted by Gregor Diseth (gsdiseth@efn.org):

Someone posted a few days ago about a February 1997 Panorama article re:
Porsche electrical systems, and in particular, how to modify the fog
lights to operate independently of the headlights.

I just walked in from the garage after completing the modification. Very
easy, and I didn't have to take apart the central electric board! I will
post my little mini procedure below, distilled from the Panorama article.
Please read it if you have a copy. See the article should your car not
conform to what I have described.

There are many reasons to perform this modification. In the US (and
possibly other countries as well) the fog lights are disabled when the
headlights are off or on high beam. First, I want to run the fog lights
as 'daytime running lights' without having the parking lights and the dash
illumination on all the time. Second, on a deserted highway at night, I
want to run the fog lights with the high beams for added lighting.

Here is the procedure. I did this on my '89 NA 944. This should apply
to most '85/2 and on cars. Please take the usual precautions - disconnect
battery negative cable, etc.

1. Unclip and remove the central electric panel cover.

2. Unplug and remove the G6 bridge adapter (it looks like a really short
relay, only about 1/2 inch tall). The part number stamped on mine is
944.610.183.06. The label inside of the central electric panel cover
labels it as 'G6 spare links' although the Panorama article refers to
it as a 'bridge adapter.' Do not confuse it with G19, which is called
an 'alarm bridge adapter' according to the label.

3. Open the G6 adapter. Mine has a plastic cover. I just spread the
base enough with my fingernails to allow the bakelite base with the
contacts sticking out to come free. If yours has a metal cover or
otherwise differs from my description, well, use your ingenuity to
open it. ;-) Be careful when you remove the cover, or all of the
connectors will fall out, and you will have created a puzzle. Guess
who did that :-)

The insides of the G6 adapter are very simple. Just a few links between
spades, and two diodes. Draw yourself a diagram of the interior so you
can put things back to stock should you get cold feet during the procedure
or want to restore the car to original. Or you can buy a new G6 adapter.

4. Here is the actual modification. The spade on the G6 adapter you are
interested in is #9. It is soldered at the junction between the two
diodes. You need to desolder and remove the spade. Be sure to leave the
two diodes connected. Or, if you do not solder, you can just cut or bend
off the spade. If you cut off the spade, put a piece of black electrical
tape over the vacated spot to prevent shorts.

Briefly, what you are actually doing (should you be wondering) is
disconnecting the low beam voltage source to the fog light switch, and
replacing it with a terminal 15 source, so your fog lights operate
independently of the lights, and switch off with the ignition.

5. Almost done. Look where G6 used to be plugged in. You will see each
slot that accepts the spades are numbered. Strip a 4 inch piece of wire
on each end, and insert one end into &lt;slot #9&gt; on the central electric
board. This corresponds to the #9 spade you removed from the G6 module.
You will want to stick a short spade in with the wire so it makes firm
contact, but leave the top of the socket as flush as possible. You will
be plugging G6 back in over the top of the wire you just inserted. The
other end goes under a fuse leg (nearest the center of the fuse panel, so
the wire is actually fused). This should be terminal 15 or X, so your
fog lights will shut off with the key. I chose fuse 25, which is heated
seats (which does not exist on my car - unused circuit). I would not pick
a sensitive circuit, like anything for the DME, instruments, radio, etc.,
just to be on the safe side.

Please be sure there is no exposed bare wire when you are done, and that
there are no stray strands that could potentially cause a short!

6. Carefully plug the G6 adapter back into the central electric panel
(over the wire you inserted into slot 9). Reconnect the battery negative,
and get your keys.

Testing:

A. With the key in the RUN position (dash lights on) you should be able
to flash the fog lights with the high beam stalk (original flash to pass
function with headlights retracted, parking lights OFF).

B. [New function] The fog lights should turn on with the switch, with the
headlights and parking lights OFF (daytime running light mode, if
desired).

C. Fog lights should work with the low (dipped) beams on, like usual.

D. [New function] Fog lights should work with the high beams on.

E. With fog lights ON, they should switch OFF with the key.

That's it! E-mail me if you note an error, or with any questions should
you get stuck.

Disclaimer: I am not liable for potential damage caused to your car
if you use this procedure. The procedure worked for me.


Works great - just as advertised.
Ok....that said, here's what I did next:

Upon installation of the new fog/driving lights, I simply used the EXISTING FOG LIGHT connections for the new DRIVING LIGHT side, thereby leaving the FOGS not hooked up.

So - due to the above modification, I then had the same functionality of the old fogs, in the new driving lights.

I bought a 2nd factory fog light switch from partsheaven, removed the trim to the left of the steering wheel and installed the switch in the blank which is outboard of the original fog switch.

for clarification:
inboard switch now controls DRIVING lights
outboard switch will control FOG lights

Then I did the following:

outboard switch (for fogs)
pin
1 ground - tied to pin 1 wire of existing driving light switch
2 12v out - thru firewall to term 86 on relay
3 one line to grey/yellow at pin 3 of existing switch
one line to grey blue at pine 3 of existing switch
4 from pin two of itself - see above
5 flash - from black lead at pin 5 on existing switch
6 12v in - tied to pin 2 (grey/red) of existing driving light switch.
AND bridged to pin two on itself

RELAY terminals (note - not as some other relays, but per the pkg labels)
30 12v out to lights
85 ground
86 12v in (trigger) from pin 2 of new switch
87 12 direct from + side of batt

I fabbed a small right-angle bracket for the relay and installed it on the cruise control servo unit in the engine compartment as it is close to the battery and also has a ground point close by.

I ran the trigger wire from pin 2 on the new switch under the dash to the passenger side and fished it thru an existing hole up to the battery area and then thru another existing hole from the battery compartment to the engine compartment to term 86 on the relay along with another line from the + side of the batt to term 87 on the relay. Don't forget to dab a bit of silicone sealant on the wire/hole to keep the wire from moving and eventually stripping off the insulation.

passengers side light.
with the entire light removed (the grey housing and all) i took a small awl and punched a hole thru the grommet that is in the back of the grey housing. just keep feeding line thru there - and keep looking inside the engine compartment - down low - where the wire will eventually show up. its hard to describe this, but i just keep feeding line (yellow for hi visibility) and then pulled it up and found a logical, gentle route to the mounted relay. connect this line to the lead from the (new) lamp. i then tied the ground from the OEM harness to both lamp 'frames' to keep the number of extra wires to a minimum.

Repeat for the drivers side - running the line up the fender, then across the rear of the engine compartment (using existing zip ties, etc.) around to the relay and join BOTH wires to terminal 30 a the relay.

Test out the connections/functions before you finally bolt up the light fixtures.

they should operate as follows:
both light switches 'icon' should be gently lit just like/along with the other dash switches
turning on the outboard switch should activate the outboard lights - the fogs
turing on the inboard switch should activate the inboard lights - the driving lights
with both switches off, pulling the high beam stalk will illuminate both sets of lights
with fogs on/driving lights off, pulling the stalk will illuminate the driving lights as well
with fogs off/driving lights on, pulling the stalk will illuminate the fog lights as well
each switch has a green light to show when the corresponding lights are on

Test everything before you bolt em up! Use your voltmeter!!!
I got into a bit of a problem when I had the + and the - reversed when I installed the lines to the additional switch - it made for some very interesting lighting control!!!!

I also installed some of the clear stoneguards over the lenses. Jason at paragon said that they are only designed for the lower wattage lamps (I'm running 100w in both the fog and driving positions) and they do get hot - but there has been no discoloration. they DO get warm if you have both sets of lights on, but i put 2000 highway miles on em and they still look great. its amazing how good i thought my OEM lenses were until i compared them to the new ones from paragon. 13 years of road rash is amazing and the new ones look fabulous!

I realize this is post a bit vague and a true 'stream of consciousness' but its been a few months since I did the install - feel free to quiz me on anything or correct any errors.

 

Thanks to all for the quick responses. I'll look for the past thread on this topic.

Brian - It sounds like you did just what I want to do. Your input will certainly help.

Renn[space]951 - Oops! RENN951 (no space) used to be my license plate number. When I registered, it seemed like a good idea. Sorry for any confusion.

As for the rear fog lamp, I ran into a severe fog bank a month ago on my way down to Indy for the F1 race. It was just around dawn, and visibility was down to almost nothing. It was then that I realized that it would be great to have the ability to switch on that one bright lamp on the rear driver's side that European drivers have. I've seen pig-tail wiring kits in catalogs, but those simply tie into the existing rear light wiring and are "always on" when the parking lights and/or headlights are on. I'm curious how the factory rear fog lamp is switched from the factory. As was mentioned, there are some blank-out plugs in the dash to the left of the existing switch (for the front fog lamps). One is the same size as the existing switch and the other is a little larger. I've seen pics of a European spec car in 911 and Porsche World that show a switch with a symbol that I couldn't quite make out. Does anyone know if that is for the second set of front lights or for the rear?

Thanks again,

 

Hi.
I totally agree with Olli S, what comes to the arragements of tail lights and how they are situated( brake lights, fog lights etc. )

I have two cars in my garage, a 944 N/a Euro version, and a 951 US.

And believe me, its really easy to notice the differences between EURO - US tail lights.

Personally, I think that US version is better ( if updated with fog light), because of the bigger brake lights.

And its looks better, too.
Especially with those red side lamps ( illeagal in some countries inc. Finland, but let's no tell anyone..)

 

i believe that the 'blank' to to the left of the wheel is for the switch that controls the driving lights. thats what i used mine for anyway - got a used switch from partsheaven in CA. just be careful removing the panel that the switch goes into - it fits in from behind. there is a hidden screw below the steering wheel - just go slow....be gentle....

 

Washington 951 - thanks for the detailed procedure! I just followed your instructions and 20 minutes later PRESTO! My lights work the way I want them to work! Those 100W DL + H4 high beams light up the road safely!

Now I can hardly wait for IceShark's E Code Cibies and harness with the 90/100 HL!

thanks!

 

hey - glad to hear it. i took a LONG time thinking this thru and figuring this out and it really works well.
got a LOT of help from the list, too - i love this place.

did you do the relay modification as well?? thats a good one.

i've ordered the iceshark kit, too.....whee!
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

The info on the thread I was referring to is all in Brian's post here, so don't bother tracking the thread down. There is, by the way, a mistake, though, in that post. I can't remember exactly what it is, but it has to do with how the live 12v line gets wired in to the extra fog light switch. If you read it through I think it will be clear, if you are doing this right away.

Meanwhile, I think I took some notes which I'll try to find and post the correction.

Also, buy 10 or at least 12 ga wire, and I used the flexible black wire cover with tie downs to secure and to make it look as neat (I mean as in organized and professional, not neat as in "cool"!) as the rest of the car.

One other item: The foglight switch has round male terminals, which in quite a bit of searching I could not locate connectors for. What I ended up doing was using the wrong end of regular flat terminals (which are round since they are designed to take the wire) and conecting those to the switch, then attaching the wire to the other end and crimping/carefully covering with electrical tape to insulate. I think 16 ga turned out to be the right size, but I'm not sure-experiment. If you can find a switch with the wires attached to the female plug that the factory uses you will save time and get a much neater job, but, what I did works.

 

I picked up a set of those euro driving / fog lights as well...I'm a little confused about "relays"...Any advice where I would find the necessary relays to make 100w H3 bulbs work properly...I have the Iceshark wiring kit and it comes with an power lead for these lights...

Iceshark...Does that mean I can simply use that power lead avoiding additional relays and wiring???