Dr Feelgood

I have a 1991 944 S2 cabrio. It runs and shifts fine but it has a couple little annoying sounds. Shifting through the gears while driving or even standing still makes a little noise which I assume is normal. However my clutch makes a little noise when I let it out in the lower gears and even when letting it out in neutral at idle. I know it's impossible to describe sounds but it's like a clack. Doesn't seem to effect performance at all, there is no chatter or any other noise. I've read that the rubber on the clutch goes bad and can give problems but is that what's happening here? If it is the rubber on the clutch does it need to be replaced right away? Am I going to damage something by driving on it?

J Berk

Does the car have an LSD? Has anyone ever inspected the transaxle to make sure the bearings that cary the drive axles are in good shape? What about the clutch plates in the LSD?

I had problems with both and it resulted in what I would describe as rubbing noise.

That trans is on the shelf...sitting next to a newly aquired LSD unit and waiting for a rebuild while a Non-S2, non-LSD trans is in my car.

Jfrahm

The stock S2 clutch has a rubber centered disc. If it blows you only have little metal tabs that allow you to drive a short distance before they are pounded to crap and leave you walking.

The worse news is that the pounding on these tabs is worse that the driveline shocks the rubber center was supposed to prevent, it can be very hard on your transmission to drive it this way.

If the car is on a flat surface and in gear with the engine off (and the parking brake off) you should be able to feel the slack in the driveline if you have someone try to push the car back and forth a bit. I recommend doing this with someone behind the wheel in case the clutch tabs snap and the car rolls away.

You can also feel the intact rubber clutch center wind up if you try to drive away with the parking brake on, feels like a rubber band holding you back.

-Joel.

RDL

Dr. There are some simple things to check first, 1) There is a heat shield over the catalitic converter that often makes some noise 2) the gearshift lever has bushings that wear and can cause some noise 3) most likely is the beginning of the rubber clutch deterioration there is an inspection hole on the bell housing that you can check the clutch condition, there will often be shavings or chunks of rubber in the hole.
Good luck

Dr Feelgood

The noise sounds just like the sound that shifting through the gears makes. Where are the bushings in the gearshift lever?

I tried looking through the clutch check hole but I don't see anything bad going on. Here's a pic. See anything I should be worried about?

Dr Feelgood

Anybody? Could the clutch really be that bad yet feel completely normal?

CorsePerVita

I thought i posted a response earlier but i guess i forgot to hit submit.

I'll retype.

You're describing a sound upon letting the clutch out. A clack, or thud, could be various things. First off you'll want to see where the wear is at on the clutch, there is an inspection window on the lower bellhousing near the slave cylinder you can check how far the clutch fork recedes which will tell you how worn the disc is. You can measure in MM from the beginning of the window, to the back edge of where the fork arm is. http://clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/clutch-03.htm

Clutches can "engage" smoothly and still have things wrong. My car was engaging "normally" but I had this bizarre hesitation I thought was an issue with my fuel system, turns out all along it was slipping like an SOB.

Generally as a rubber clutch goes out it makes a pretty annoying thud or clunk on decel since load is put on. However, to rule it out, check the inspection window and look for rubber chunks. If you start seeing rubber material in there you are losing parts of the rubber center and your clutch is on it's way out.

From looking at your pictures I do not see any imminent signs of anything to worry about, however, the only thing you can see is the pressure plate/flywheel. Since the disc is encased, it is impossible to gauge anything other than rubber chunks and the wear of the disc visually without removing it.

A video or audio file of the issue would help a lot, but start by checking the maintenance window, and also look for rubber chunks as mentioned.

Keep in mind other weird noises could be the throwout bearing if it's binding or has issues. Your torque tube bearings can make some horrible noises too. However, the only thing that would make noises upon letting out the clutch would be the throwout, as TT bearings would be all the time, and moreso at higher speeds.

Hope this helps.

Dr Feelgood

I think I've stumbled upon a bit of good news. First off here is a clip of the sound underneath the car pushing in the clutch and letting it out.

http://gkeonline.com/temp/pclutch.MOV

What I didn't hear before was that after the initial sound of engaging the clutch there is a sort of mechanical rattling sound. This basically what is described here under the clutch section:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html

I'll still check for rubber chunks and all but it sounds like this is the issue since I have no hesitation or driveability issues, just annoying noise. Hopefully all will go well. Thanks for all the help.

Dr Feelgood

Sorry for the really late reply but....
Pics and Video!!!

Here are pictures of the inspection hole under the car. The measure distance was 25mm which is in the 18-34 range recommended at clarks-garage.com.





Here is a video of some of the sounds. With the car on when I let out the clutch in neutral, not moving, I hear the clack. I push it back in and then hear the same clack when pushing the shifter into gear with the clutch still ALL the way out. But the after that first shifter throw the sound is much less pronounced.

http://www.gkeonline.com/temp/noise.MOV

Dr Feelgood

For some reason Rennlist isn't allowing pics... here are the links


http://www.gkeonline.com/temp/P1010053.JPG
http://www.gkeonline.com/temp/P1010054.JPG
http://www.gkeonline.com/temp/P1010055.JPG

Dr Feelgood

anyone have any thoughts on the video? Is it working at least?

pnbell

Have you check the clutch for movement by turning the torque tube?

This is how I convinced myself that my clutch had finally died... (3 weeks ago)

It's really easy:
-Put the car in neutral (e-brake on)
-Jack up one side of the car (so you can slide under)
-Slide under the Rear of the Car and Remove the Two Rubber Plugs in the Torque Tube/Transmission Bellhousing (One is a Large Rectangle, the other is a small Circle)
-Put you hand up into the Large Rectangle Hole, and Grab the Torque Tube
-Look into the Small Hole, and Try to turn the Torque Tube

-Does the Torque Tube Turn Back and Forth?
*If so: Your Rubber Center Clutch has Failed... Time to Replace
**If not: Your problem is elsewhere


When mine failed the other week i noticed:
-Increased Transmission Noise
-Difficult Shifting Somethimes
-DriveLine Slack (Jerky movement when getting on and off the gas pedal; especially in lower gears)
-A distinct 'clunk' when releasing the clutch pedal
*My Rubber Clutch was actually failling for about a year, and one morning driving pretty hard (following JohnKOAwood: ha ha) it decided to break completely, and got much worse quickly...

Driving with a broken Rubber center is possible for a long time given you make extremely gentle clutch movements; However no matter how gentle you are, this is VERY BAD for the transmission, as the Driveline Slack will eventually destroy to pinion gear and internal tranny parts.... <-- My point is you can drive it if you need to get it somewhere to be fixed.

p.s. I found NO Rubber Bits until i acutally removed the Clutch housing... I assume most of them had fell out on the road while driving.

Keep us posted, Good Luck!

ZR8ED

Not a solution, but I wanted to comment on those tabs. I DO NOT RECOMMEND RACING OR ANY HARD DRVING USING THE TABS.
However. The tabs are quite beefy, and if you drive the car smoothly and gently (not clunking when shifting), you do not have to worry about the clutch suddenly exploding. I drove for a few months on them before I got time to fix the car, and have had no ill effects afterwards when I dismantled and installed a new clutch. After inspection of the clutch, I figured you could drive on those tabs quite well, if you needed to get home, or drive it to a shop etc. This is not a reason to not change the clutch if the rubber is shot. It is only to inspire confidence of being able to drive the car to get it repaired or get home with no issues.

Dr Feelgood

@pnbell

Where is this large rectangular hole? Do the S2's have it? I've been under the car looking for it and the only hole I see is the one for inspection, the small round one. Any pictures?

Dr Feelgood

I tried rolling the car in gear with the engine off. Here is the video. First I tried 1st gear then 5th gear. 1st gear barely moves and 5th gear moves alot. Here is the video:

http://www.gkeonline.com/temp/roll.MOV

It feels like rubber holding the car back while in gear at the end of the slack. What do you guys think?