Toronto86 944

Sid,

I agree with you that it is not the guns but the mentality of the people who own them. But why are we giving guns to people who 'mentally' should not be carrying them? And yes, you could hurt or kill somebody with weapons other than a gun. But I don't see this D.C. sniper throwing knives from 50 yards away. The screening process for owning a gun must be made more strict.

Tabor

Toronto86 944,

You HAVE to let people in the US have access to guns since their are still plenty of places where you need them to protect yourself from animals. Also, their are plenty of places where you are a very long distance away from law enforcement.

Who says your neighbors don't have guns? Anyone can get their PAL in Canada fairly easily and buy firarms (including handguns - GASP).

France has much more restrictive gun laws than Oregon or Canada and it is actually cheaper to buy illegal guns in France than it is to buy legal ones in the US. Gun laws have done nothing to help France, why would they help the US?

SidViscous

T

The problem is the same with cars. Why do we allow people to drive that should not be allowed to for physical or mental reasons. You can't always tell 100% wether or not someone should, and unfortunately it's sometimes easier to just say okay.

No the Sniper is not throwing knives, but he is also not blowing up coffee shops, or killing pols and throwing them in the trunk. (I know they are old examples but I don't follow crime in Canada that closely). You can't say that because someone is doing one thing with a gun that the answer is to ban guns. If he wasn't on the news, maybe someone who was killing people with knives would be. The sniper and Columbine are just newsworthy events. So are many serial killers who tend to use a knife. But the knife doesn't become the focus of the news, as guns do. Instead it is the indivudual, where the blame squarely belongs.

The point we tied to make earlier that areas like where I live have very low crime rates, but also very easy access to guns. So it is a correlation you cannot make

Tabor

Toronto86 944,

I almost forgot: Washington DC (where all guns are banned) has the highest violent crime rate and murder rate in the nation). Florida's violent crime rate made a dramatic drop after they allowed the average citizen to cary their pistols. Australia's crime rate has recently increased dramatically since they banned almost all firearms, specifically: rape.

Also, I like shooting almost as much as driving. Why should I give up that freedom just because some people can't handle the responsibility? Cars kill far more people in the US per year than guns do. The ratio becomes even farther skewed when you look at Oregon. Note: Supercharged V8s are now illegal in Australia, so are roll bars/cages. Don't think it can't happen in Canada. Also, don't think that one freedom is some how more deserving than another.

Toronto86 944

Sid/Tabor

I understand a lot of what you guys are saying. I don't agree with all of it , but I understand. But here's the thing. Some kid's parents (who happen to be upstanding, middle class citizens) have a gun for protection purposes. The kid gets pissed off with some friends at school and decides to 'borrow' his parents' gun. And you know what happens next. By looking at the parents, you would think they were very responsible, but obviously, they are not. Sure, ok, it's not the governments problem, it's the parents problem. but is it? Believe me, the same thing has happened in Canada. I'm not restricting this situation to the U.S.

Tabor

Toronto86 944,

I agree with you 100%. I think their should be punishments set forth for people who allow their weapons to be used in such a manner. I never said I was against gun 'control'. I just said I wanted the right to shoot a criminal in the face.

SidViscous

A couple of years ago my Nephew got his first "real" gunA kids .22 for Christmas. When he oponed the box his eye's went wide.

"This is a real gun isn't it"
"Yes"
"then we should lock it up in the safe."

He didn't want to open any more presents until it was locked up in the safe. He was 6.

The problem is not that the kids had the access to the guns, but rather that they thought doing serious boddily harm to someone was okay.

I got picked on and in fights my fair share growing up. And I had access to guns. Never once did I consider taking a gun and shooting them.

PorschePlayer

Just a side story, to illustrate the gun as a mechanism, in contrast to a problem. When I was in high school, only a few short years ago, a couple of degenerates at my school set off a chemical bomb. Although nobody was injured it was a very appauling thing. The kids who did it got virtually no legal punishment, and there was even talk of them returning to school the next year. People with real problems will find ways to cause real damage, with or without guns. Gun ownership in our great country is often seen as a right, instead of a liberty. In my political ideology I view the right to protect myself as very important. Remember Aldolf Hilter advocated full gun registration in Germany in the early 30's. Firearm registration, and legislation as a whole is mearly a stepping stone to gun seizure by the government. I am a card carrying member of the NRA and take this issue very seriously, I hope others who feel similarly will show up November 5th and support the right to bear arms.

SidViscous

And in contrast a student in VT who showed up on school property to pick up a friend and go hunting was expelled because there was a gun in his car.

And there have been instances of young kids getting thrown out for a week for making a gun with their fingers. Or showing up with a cap gun.

Cut off their fingers I say.

judd944

where I went to high school I used to make videos in spanish class about bank robberys or other skits that involved water guns and that were painted black(by me) to look more convincing. this was in 98. that next year I shot my first turkey while hunting with 4 of my class-mates. who did I want to show this to? my high school principle. he liked to hunt so on the afternoon of the day I shot my turkey I backed my Jeep up to the door of the school jumped out with my friends (All still wearing camo) and walked to the principals office. he came out and saw the turkey and all of our shot guns in the back of the car. all he could talk about was how to cook the turkey and how he wished he got one. Today things are different. the door are all locked and after hitting a buzzer at the door I find I need an appointment to see my old physics teacher. A new principal is in charge and a senior was kicked out of school because a drug sniffing dog was led past his car and showed interest in his car. they opened it and inside was his perscription drugs and 2 shotgun shells under his seat that fell out of his pocket from the last time he was hunting. He had to switch school because of 2 shotgun shells.

Peckster

A six year old with a 22?

Billy, finish your broccoli right now or no cake for you...

Micah

I once watched a post cold-war interview with a FSU Army General.
The General was being asked about Soviet tactics during the cold war, etc. One of the questions was, "Were there ever any plans of a conventional ground invasion of the US?"
The General sat back, his eyes wide and said "Good god, no - every American has a... how do you say, "shotgun collection," no?"

For the record, I'm not a gun advocate Just thought it was funny.

Micah