Turbo VS. S2
05-08-2003, 12:54 PM
#31
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dal Heger:
<strong>Ok, since I have both a 951 and an S2, I feel very qualified to get into this conversation. In short the turbo blows the S2 away in speed, no questions.
Dal.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm qualified too I guess. Couldn't agree more.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
<strong>Ok, since I have both a 951 and an S2, I feel very qualified to get into this conversation. In short the turbo blows the S2 away in speed, no questions.
Dal.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm qualified too I guess. Couldn't agree more.
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05-08-2003, 01:08 PM
#32
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike Buck:
[QB Couldn't agree more.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Interesting. Is this a comparison between a bone-stock 951 -vs- 944S2 or are they modified in anyway?
Karl.
[QB Couldn't agree more.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Interesting. Is this a comparison between a bone-stock 951 -vs- 944S2 or are they modified in anyway?
Karl.
05-08-2003, 01:23 PM
#33
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At this time last year, it was a stock-stock comparison. Now the 951 is far from stock, so it really blows the S2 away. Sure the S2 has a better low end and loves to rev, but the turbo just "moves" me more. An S2 is a GREAT car, but I absolutely love my turbo and would hate to see it go.
05-08-2003, 01:36 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Keep this discussion going. Especially on the bone stock side. One of my dreams is to buy a mint-perfect dark blue S2 with black interior and Cup 2 wheels...Does such a thing exist? I'm not a big fan of engine modifications.
I'll take turbo rush over nothing any day, but I've always preferred straight horsepower with no lag.
I'll take turbo rush over nothing any day, but I've always preferred straight horsepower with no lag.
05-08-2003, 02:26 PM
#36
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike Buck:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dal Heger:
<strong>Ok, since I have both a 951 and an S2, I feel very qualified to get into this conversation. In short the turbo blows the S2 away in speed, no questions.
Dal.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm qualified too I guess. Couldn't agree more.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are we talking stock cars here? A stock turbo isn't much faster than the S2 is, I've driven a few turbos that were close to stock. They definately feel faster though..gotta love when the boost comes on.
Though the straight line is close, on a race track the S2 would probably get you faster times unless theres a LOT of long straights, due to the constant power of the NA motor for better corner exit speed. This is especially nice in carousel type corner where you have to wait and wait, then punch it. S2 takes off as soon as you put your foot down and the turbo takes a second to build pressure again.
Of course all you have to do is chip the turbo and it'll smoke the S2 fairly easily. But driving an NA car or S2 will make you a better driver to start with because you have to keep your momentum through the corners...you can't make it up on the straights like in turbo cars.
Who here has actually driven a stock turbo and S2 on the track? I've only driven my S2 and what I just said is what I hear from guys who have turbos at DEs and stuff. I'd like to hear the impressions of those who have done both.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dal Heger:
<strong>Ok, since I have both a 951 and an S2, I feel very qualified to get into this conversation. In short the turbo blows the S2 away in speed, no questions.
Dal.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm qualified too I guess. Couldn't agree more.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are we talking stock cars here? A stock turbo isn't much faster than the S2 is, I've driven a few turbos that were close to stock. They definately feel faster though..gotta love when the boost comes on.
Though the straight line is close, on a race track the S2 would probably get you faster times unless theres a LOT of long straights, due to the constant power of the NA motor for better corner exit speed. This is especially nice in carousel type corner where you have to wait and wait, then punch it. S2 takes off as soon as you put your foot down and the turbo takes a second to build pressure again.
Of course all you have to do is chip the turbo and it'll smoke the S2 fairly easily. But driving an NA car or S2 will make you a better driver to start with because you have to keep your momentum through the corners...you can't make it up on the straights like in turbo cars.
Who here has actually driven a stock turbo and S2 on the track? I've only driven my S2 and what I just said is what I hear from guys who have turbos at DEs and stuff. I'd like to hear the impressions of those who have done both.
05-08-2003, 02:28 PM
#37
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Hi Tremelune,
Since you're looking at S2s, you might be interested in all the gory details of where money has been spent on my S2 at:
<a href="http://www.weissach.net/WP0AB294XMN410197-History.html" target="_blank">http://www.weissach.net/WP0AB294XMN410197-History.html</a>
Karl.
Since you're looking at S2s, you might be interested in all the gory details of where money has been spent on my S2 at:
<a href="http://www.weissach.net/WP0AB294XMN410197-History.html" target="_blank">http://www.weissach.net/WP0AB294XMN410197-History.html</a>
Karl.
05-08-2003, 04:03 PM
#39
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Tremelune,
Shoot me an email. I'll pass on the details and pics of my S2 for sale. It is a perfect '91 like Karls, only its Crystal Silver w/ Black
mibuck@vt.edu
Shoot me an email. I'll pass on the details and pics of my S2 for sale. It is a perfect '91 like Karls, only its Crystal Silver w/ Black
mibuck@vt.edu
05-08-2003, 04:48 PM
#40
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Well, ok, since neither of my cars are stock, I guess I'm out of the discussion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Dal.
Dal.
05-08-2003, 05:24 PM
#41
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike Buck:
<strong>its Crystal Silver w/ Black
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Post a pic! Personally I wouldn't go with a black car again. Way too hard to keep clean.
Silver would be my choice if I was doing it all over again.
Karl.
<strong>its Crystal Silver w/ Black
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Post a pic! Personally I wouldn't go with a black car again. Way too hard to keep clean.
Silver would be my choice if I was doing it all over again.
Karl.
05-08-2003, 05:39 PM
#42
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Let's settle one misconception right off the bat.
There is no turbo lag at the track. It's that simple. Anyone who says there is has either never driven a turbo at the track, has too large a turbo for their motor, or likes to drive around tracks at under 3000rpm.
That said, a stock turbo has more torque and hp than an S2 with the same suspension. Now that we all know and understand that there is no lag at the track, which do you think will be faster at the track?
"S2 has greater low end torque to pull you out of corners" - An S2 has more torque below 3000rpm. Again, who's driving around tracks at under 3000rpm? A turbo makes significantly more torque than an S2 above 3000rpm and that is what really pulls you out of corners.
A properly driven 944T needs to carry momentum just as much as the next car. Low hp cars that carry momentum through a corner can and will pass cars that just wait until the straight to step on the pedal.
There is no turbo lag at the track. It's that simple. Anyone who says there is has either never driven a turbo at the track, has too large a turbo for their motor, or likes to drive around tracks at under 3000rpm.
That said, a stock turbo has more torque and hp than an S2 with the same suspension. Now that we all know and understand that there is no lag at the track, which do you think will be faster at the track?
"S2 has greater low end torque to pull you out of corners" - An S2 has more torque below 3000rpm. Again, who's driving around tracks at under 3000rpm? A turbo makes significantly more torque than an S2 above 3000rpm and that is what really pulls you out of corners.
A properly driven 944T needs to carry momentum just as much as the next car. Low hp cars that carry momentum through a corner can and will pass cars that just wait until the straight to step on the pedal.
05-08-2003, 05:52 PM
#43
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ninefiveone:
<strong>Let's settle one misconception right off the bat.
There is no turbo lag at the track.
A turbo makes significantly more torque than an S2 above 3000rpm and that is what really pulls you out of corners.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Like I said, I've never driven a turbo on the track. But plenty I've talked to have, and I just go by what they've told me.
Right a turbo makes ~9 more hp and like 20 lb/ft torque more...and also weighs more. On straightaways I keep up with stock turbos just fine..they don't just "blow me away" so I'm tired of hearing that they will--they don't, unless they're modified. And I have a turbo gearbox as well, if I had the S2 one I'd be right up on them all the way down. In long carousel corners I do run up on them..so unless I'm missing something or am a better driver than in almost every turbo I've gotten behind (YEAH RIGHT), there has to be a slight difference in the availability of their power coming out of those corners, hence why I asked people with track experience with those cars to give their input.
<strong>Let's settle one misconception right off the bat.
There is no turbo lag at the track.
A turbo makes significantly more torque than an S2 above 3000rpm and that is what really pulls you out of corners.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Like I said, I've never driven a turbo on the track. But plenty I've talked to have, and I just go by what they've told me.
Right a turbo makes ~9 more hp and like 20 lb/ft torque more...and also weighs more. On straightaways I keep up with stock turbos just fine..they don't just "blow me away" so I'm tired of hearing that they will--they don't, unless they're modified. And I have a turbo gearbox as well, if I had the S2 one I'd be right up on them all the way down. In long carousel corners I do run up on them..so unless I'm missing something or am a better driver than in almost every turbo I've gotten behind (YEAH RIGHT), there has to be a slight difference in the availability of their power coming out of those corners, hence why I asked people with track experience with those cars to give their input.
05-08-2003, 10:08 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
I agree. my friend has a turbo and that is all stock and we went to a 1/4mile track and from 0-70 I beat him and off the blocks there was nothing in it.. On the other had after 70 he slowly pulled away. I have a cabriolet though with alot of extra heft. I think that a coupe S2 would have been able to hold them off till atleast 100. (he doesnt have LSD though so thats alot to do with the launch) Anyways its close to say the least just my .02