P944forScott

Saw a nice Z3 coupe on the freeway on the way to work. Looks like a nice ride, anyone driven one and if so how does it compare to a 944?

Peter K.

I haven't driven one, but I have smoked a few the S

I have driven however an M car that looked like the Z3 but has M all over nad in it. That car was awesome. It handled like the 944 with konis and springs, it had silly acceleration and very nice braking.

The z3 is way underpowered obviously, it was quite fun to see the look ont eh guys face when I passed him easily when he dumped it at a red light, I tried not to race him, I really did, he sat at the light revving his engine, I did nothing, didn't even look, except once and his girl was looking over at me smiling!

WHen the light turned, MIND YOU IT WAS LATE AND NO ONE ELSE ON THE ROAD@!#*@&#!!!
he dumped it, spun tires for a sec and then got traction and left, I couldn't help it, I brought it up to 3K and dumped it my self, tires chirped a bit, got tractiona dn the S was ahead in time for me to shift to second as I passed and smile at his girl.

At the next light...well, he turned.

SO, although I am sure to be flamed for posting that, it was nice to have my 16 year old car teach that new bimmer a lesson.

wjk_glynn

I used to lease a 2.8L Z3 Coupe and I now own a 944 S2.

First let me begin by saying that there is a world of difference between the handling of a Z3 Coupe compared to a Z3 convertible. The Coupe was (and maybe still is) the stiffest stock BMW manufactured and this was a big improvement over the rag-top.

Z3 Coupe - Great engine. Lots of low end torque. Idiosyncratic styling (if you like that sort of thing). I had the extended leather option so the interior and seats were very nice. Fantastic brakes on the street, though I don't know how they'd hold up on the track. Higher overall grip than the S2. Even though the engine was only 193 BHP, I can tell you that its as quick as my 208 BHP S2 on the street.

944S2 - All of the controls (steering, accelerator, etc) are more "linear" in their response. The limit of grip is less than the Z3 Coupe but the handling is more progressive. More practical with a lot more interior room. The S2 breathes a bit better at the top end so on the track, you'd get a little more performance out of it compared to the Z3. Having said that, on the street there's nothing between them. I prefer the feel of the S2 gear stick as well.

Karl.

P944forScott

I suppose if I were to go for a Z3 I would get the M coupe, however Isn't the M engine the high maintenance unit that requires special oil and expensive dealer tune ups?
Of course I could get a very nice condition S2 or 951 for less than half the price of a M coupe but then...

J Berk

I drove a friend's 2.8L Z3 .....I liked it..the engine reminded me of my old 280zx ( smooth as silk and lots of torque). It handled well but I don't think it was as much a 'sports car' as the 944's I've driven.

PS - it was a rag-top

Conor

Someone here just bought an M coupe and is in turn selling their 944, i'll see if i can find that post...

dave120

My cousin has a '97 2.8L Z3 Conv. and we're always harrassing each other about which is the better car.

The Z3 isn't a bad ride..its about as quick as my S2 is..a little less power but it's also lighter. It has a little more torque down low with the straight 6 whereas mine doesn't really kick hard until the 3500 range. The cornering grip my S2 has the advantage..but I also don't have the stock suspension. The brakes on the Z3 work well but they're not the 4 piston Brembos I've got. I'm not sure why BMW is still using single piston calipers on most of their cars...

Overall I'd say the interior of the Z feels cheaper than mine..its got more squeeks and rattles to it. Granted I've got a couple minor things as well but my car isn't only 5 years old..it's like 14. When I drove the z3 though it feels quite a bit like a 944 as far as the controls and things go. I got right in and could drive it with real ease because the clutch, motor, and balance of the car is very similar to the S2.

But at the end of the day I like the looks, attitude and overall feels of the P-car better.

Conor

Here is that post:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=019071" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=019071</a>

Conor

ELLSSUU

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by J Berk:
<strong>I drove a friend's 2.8L Z3 .....I liked it..the engine reminded me of my old 280zx ( smooth as silk and lots of torque). It handled well but I don't think it was as much a 'sports car' as the 944's I've driven.

PS - it was a rag-top</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">As the former owner of a 280zx I can assure you that the "smooth as silk" was due to the total lack of acceleration that the zx's had. That car was about as quick as a Pinto.

ian

Well as addressed above z3's varry greatly.

The Z3's had a lot of motors in the cars life, a 1.8, 2.3, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and then a 3.2 with individual throttle bodies (the M54 motor from the e46 M3).

And you had the narrow body cars and then the M cars, then there is the coupe to roaster differences, and I think there was an update with a couple year to go that seriously redid the car.

I've driven a 1.8 roaser, and M roadster and M coupe and a late 3.0 roadster. The early 1.8 is a toy and very boring. The M roadster and 3.0 were must more tossable and how power to back them up but still felt vague and were not cars i really want to go back and drive. the M Coupe on the other hand is one of my favorite all time drives, it was twitchy and on the edge but had great feedback and just loved to be tossed through corners. Between the 951 and the M coupe it would be a tough call untill I think about how much of a 951 I could build for that price.....

But I still would like to have both.

Fishey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Karl Glynn:
<strong>I used to lease a 2.8L Z3 Coupe and I now own a 944 S2.

First let me begin by saying that there is a world of difference between the handling of a Z3 Coupe compared to a Z3 convertible. The Coupe was (and maybe still is) the stiffest stock BMW manufactured and this was a big improvement over the rag-top.

Z3 Coupe - Great engine. Lots of low end torque. Idiosyncratic styling (if you like that sort of thing). I had the extended leather option so the interior and seats were very nice. Fantastic brakes on the street, though I don't know how they'd hold up on the track. Higher overall grip than the S2. Even though the engine was only 193 BHP, I can tell you that its as quick as my 208 BHP S2 on the street.

944S2 - All of the controls (steering, accelerator, etc) are more "linear" in their response. The limit of grip is less than the Z3 Coupe but the handling is more progressive. More practical with a lot more interior room. The S2 breathes a bit better at the top end so on the track, you'd get a little more performance out of it compared to the Z3. Having said that, on the street there's nothing between them. I prefer the feel of the S2 gear stick as well.

Karl.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I couldnt dissagree more..
Drove a Z3 had nintendo quick steering, I felt like a Giant man driveing it with the little cut down doors and grip levels were about the same maybe less. The 3.0L my friend has is a convertable so I dunno but my S2 is also a convertable. acceleration is really close the s2 just never seems to be pulling hard but in reality its hauling and the z3 3.0 barly pulls on me but off the blocks theres nothing in it the s2 pulls harder in the 60'. Brakeing the S2 KILLS no wait thats not anuff Slaughters the Z3. After abuseing the Z3 brakes for about 30 min we did a brake test and it was like SUPER FADE! the 944 was like Super Grip. The z3 had added 20ft to its 70mph stoping distance the 944 had loss 3ft and the 944 was shorter to start with. (we do stupid reviews like this all the time just don't ask) The z3 doesnt have alot of squat like my 944 but the frame is alot newwer so its to be expected.

stjobs

I think I'm qualified to answer this one, seeing as I own a 1997 1.9 Z3 and I'm about to buy a 951 (in 6 months). These are just my opinions and conjectures.

I have driven one 944, a late 1986 n/a. I have owned my Z3 for about a year.

Both cars are similar in their layout, but the feel of the operation was very different in my opinion. The BMWs shifter feels much more positive and has shorter throws, whereas the 944 felt vague. The clutch pedal on the Z3 has a much firmer feel - on the 944 it felt like the return spring was too weak, as the engagement effort was very light and when you took your foot off it didn't return to its normal position as briskly as perhaps it could have. The accelerator pedal on the BMW is easier to modulate, I found. It requires little effort and moves smoothly, whereas on the 944 the gas pedal took some force to completely depress.

Steering on both cars was good - the 944 was heavier feeling but both gave similar feedback. Acceleration is about the same, not great on both cars - although I feel that my Z3 has more snap on the top end. Above 3500 rpms it pulls decently. The Porsche felt like it was running out of steam above 4500 or so, especially in higher gears.

In terms of handling, I was more comfortable with the Z3. Perhaps it is because I have auto-xed it and owned it for nearly a year. I felt the limits were higher (I do have 18" wheels and 225 tires though) and were more easily approached. With the 944, I felt like I had to go a little more gently - it didn't seem as tossable. I wasn't able to probe the ultimate limits of grip, as the owner was in the car with me.

The brakes in both cars are very nice. I don't know if you take much stock in magazine tests, but the Z3 has posted short 60-0 times : 118 feet. This is 8 feet more than a Ferrari 360 Spyder. One thing to be acknowledged is that BMW brakes do fade a little under hard use. Most owners replace the pads with Porterfields or the equivalent (EBC, etc.), and upgrade the brake lines to stainless steel. This improves the long-term brake performance significantly. The 944's brakes were powerful and easy to modulate.

The suspension, surprisingly, is quite soft in both cars, at least for my tastes. The 944 squatted less on acceleration but rolled more in the turns, and provided an overall more supple ride. The Z3 is more jarring, but also more composed in tight turns, in my opinion. This is possibly due to the short wheelbase.

In conclusion, both cars are excellent. I tend to view my 1.9 liter Z3 as a roadster rather than a pure sports car, it is RWD and seats 2, but there is not enough power for it to be a true sports car. The handling, interior, brakes, and build quality are top-notch though. The 944 is perhaps more pure, but the handling did not inspire as much confidence for me and the controls were less precise feeling. I will post again once I drive a 951 hopefully this weekend.

stjobs

schlag

Running out of steam at 4500?

4500 is right in the heart of my NA's powerband, lots of torque there.

schlag

...

stjobs

Like I said, that's just my opinion. There's also no guarantee that the 944 I drove was properly maintained, etc.

stjobs