does timing belt need re-tension after 3K?
10-11-2002, 08:34 AM
#16
Drifting
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[quote]Originally posted by Brian McCoy:
<strong>6k from new, never retensioned, and at the proper tension? You make the call (I'm to much of a noobie to do it myself).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, after 1,500 miles my belt was FLOPPY compared to what it was supposed to be. However, 15,000 later it was spot on. You make the call.
<strong>6k from new, never retensioned, and at the proper tension? You make the call (I'm to much of a noobie to do it myself).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, after 1,500 miles my belt was FLOPPY compared to what it was supposed to be. However, 15,000 later it was spot on. You make the call.
10-11-2002, 10:55 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
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There is a decent 84 944 that has been sitting at this gas station for nearly 2 years. Sat in front for about 2 weeks. {the for sale spot). Then was moved to the back with a sign in the window. Potential buyer took it for a ride. got on it hard. T-belt failure. there it sits. It is an automatic. lesson learned buy seller..
10-11-2002, 11:41 AM
#19
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Man am I confused. I got all my belts replaced @ 40k(orig.) when I bought my car a month ago and after reading on the list I asked my shop about retensioning, he said he didn't think it was necessary. This is a great shop, haved used them for my BMW before, very competent guys. I trust them, I think, but after this thread I'm not sure. I've spent almost half of what I paid for the car on stuff and really couldn't be happier with the car, well, some, a lot more power, but that's down the road.
10-11-2002, 03:46 PM
#20
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The place that did my belts said since I had an auto-tensioner I didn't need to get it retensioned. Should I be worried? It was probably around 1,500 miles ago or so. I'm starting to hear the t-belt tap the inside plastic cover, but it goes away most of the time.
-Matt
-Matt
10-11-2002, 06:07 PM
#21
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The auto tensioner does not readjust on the fly. The belt tension is set by the auto tensioner and then the tensioner is bolted down. It won't move again until you go in and allow it to. It will not take up any slack between adjustments, all it does is set the tension for you during adjustment, so you don't need to use the 9201 tool. If your shop told you your tensioner would take up the slack normally dealt with by adjustments, maybe they left it loose and it's flopping around? Scary.
-Joel.
-Joel.
10-11-2002, 06:22 PM
#22
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Matt Olde:
<strong>I'm starting to hear the t-belt tap the inside plastic cover, but it goes away most of the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>I screwed around and had that happen last weekend while retensioning [jeez, what DIDN'T I do?] and the balance belt jumped a few teeth. You're driving on borrowed time if that's a belt slapping around.
<strong>I'm starting to hear the t-belt tap the inside plastic cover, but it goes away most of the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>I screwed around and had that happen last weekend while retensioning [jeez, what DIDN'T I do?] and the balance belt jumped a few teeth. You're driving on borrowed time if that's a belt slapping around.
10-11-2002, 08:49 PM
#24
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I just bought a 1987 924s. The belts were redone about 20000 miles ago, and I'm not sure about a retension. Do 87+ models need to be retentioned, even with the auto tensioner?
10-11-2002, 09:07 PM
#25
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by 944S2NUT:
<strong>When should the timing belt on an S2 be retennioned?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1500 miles.
[quote]Originally posted by Conor:
<strong>I just bought a 1987 924s. The belts were redone about 20000 miles ago, and I'm not sure about a retension. Do 87+ models need to be retentioned, even with the auto tensioner?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes. If you read above someone described the purpose of the auto-tensioner. It does not maintain the correct tension at any given second, it makes tensioning during belt changes easier.
<strong>When should the timing belt on an S2 be retennioned?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1500 miles.
[quote]Originally posted by Conor:
<strong>I just bought a 1987 924s. The belts were redone about 20000 miles ago, and I'm not sure about a retension. Do 87+ models need to be retentioned, even with the auto tensioner?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes. If you read above someone described the purpose of the auto-tensioner. It does not maintain the correct tension at any given second, it makes tensioning during belt changes easier.
10-11-2002, 11:19 PM
#26
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Below is the procedure I found on the 924/944/968 FAQ site (for the 87+ adjustment)... <a href="http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq08.html" target="_blank">FAQ Site</a>
Can someone who's done this confirm the ease/simplicity of the job? How about the torque specs that are for the tensioning bolts and belt cover?
Thanks
Ron
"8.5 How do I tension the timing belt an 87 or later car using the built-in tensioner?"
"The self-tensioner on '87 and later 944, S, Turbo and S2 allows accurate tensioning of the timing belt without tool P9201. The assembly achieves this by means of a spring whose preload is fixed to create the proper tension while the engine is cold. Loosening the correct bolts frees the spring up to do this task before retightening.
The entire job is done from above the engine. You gain access to the belts by removing various things depending on which 944 variant you have. The 944, S, Turbo and S2 are all a little different. In each case you are removing hoses or boxes which carry air. The 944 has a coolant hose which may get in the way. The Turbo needs to have some of its plumbing removed.
Once you have a clear view of the top portion of the two piece plastic belt housing, remove the 10mm bolts holding it in place and finagle it out. You now have a view of the tensioner assembly and belts. The belt should look fresh and not show cracking or shining.
The next phase would, by some, be considered optional. The factory workshop manual states that the engine should be at TDC (top dead center) minus 10 degrees (about 1-1.5 cam teeth) before the tensioning spring is released. This is because belt tension isn't always the same between the cam and crank as the engine turns. It varies slightly. If being unable to find TDC discourages you, you might still be better off releasing the spring than chancing a loose belt. A description locating TDC is available above in the timing belt replacement tips.
The tensioner is the alloy arm roughly 6 inches long with three bolts sticking out. If you look behind it, you'll see the spring. The assembly swings on the top bolt, has an elliptical opening on the locking bottom right bolt and retains the tensioning sprocket with the bolt on the left.
Loosen the top 13mm bolt. Now, while watching the tensioning sprocket for movement, loosen the locking 13mm nut. The sprocket should either not move or move slightly to the left and up against the timing belt. If no movement occurs, take a 17mm closed end wrench slip it on the sprocket bolt and put pressure down on the nut to make sure it is not seized/jammed. Lock the locking nut to the designated torque (warning: it’s not much). Install everything back at the proper torque and you are all set."
Can someone who's done this confirm the ease/simplicity of the job? How about the torque specs that are for the tensioning bolts and belt cover?
Thanks
Ron
"8.5 How do I tension the timing belt an 87 or later car using the built-in tensioner?"
"The self-tensioner on '87 and later 944, S, Turbo and S2 allows accurate tensioning of the timing belt without tool P9201. The assembly achieves this by means of a spring whose preload is fixed to create the proper tension while the engine is cold. Loosening the correct bolts frees the spring up to do this task before retightening.
The entire job is done from above the engine. You gain access to the belts by removing various things depending on which 944 variant you have. The 944, S, Turbo and S2 are all a little different. In each case you are removing hoses or boxes which carry air. The 944 has a coolant hose which may get in the way. The Turbo needs to have some of its plumbing removed.
Once you have a clear view of the top portion of the two piece plastic belt housing, remove the 10mm bolts holding it in place and finagle it out. You now have a view of the tensioner assembly and belts. The belt should look fresh and not show cracking or shining.
The next phase would, by some, be considered optional. The factory workshop manual states that the engine should be at TDC (top dead center) minus 10 degrees (about 1-1.5 cam teeth) before the tensioning spring is released. This is because belt tension isn't always the same between the cam and crank as the engine turns. It varies slightly. If being unable to find TDC discourages you, you might still be better off releasing the spring than chancing a loose belt. A description locating TDC is available above in the timing belt replacement tips.
The tensioner is the alloy arm roughly 6 inches long with three bolts sticking out. If you look behind it, you'll see the spring. The assembly swings on the top bolt, has an elliptical opening on the locking bottom right bolt and retains the tensioning sprocket with the bolt on the left.
Loosen the top 13mm bolt. Now, while watching the tensioning sprocket for movement, loosen the locking 13mm nut. The sprocket should either not move or move slightly to the left and up against the timing belt. If no movement occurs, take a 17mm closed end wrench slip it on the sprocket bolt and put pressure down on the nut to make sure it is not seized/jammed. Lock the locking nut to the designated torque (warning: it’s not much). Install everything back at the proper torque and you are all set."
10-12-2002, 03:49 PM
#28
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The retension is a must. I just completed the 3000 on my 84 and there was a sizable difference than when I put the belts on new. I put them on at 3.0 new and when I just rechecked them, the balance was down to 2.3 and the timing was down to 2.5. Still in tolerance but I put them back up to 3.0 so I wont have to worry for quite some time. Just my opinion, but if your in the 9201 tool club, the $20 pays for itself in just one use and you have the correct tools to do everything. Jay Cohen runs the tool shed for rennlist so if you need the stuff, look him up nad email him to get your name on the list.
James....
James....
10-12-2002, 04:38 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
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Even the 968, with a true auto-tensioner on the cam belt, needs to have the balance shaft reset after 1500-2000 miles. I had records showing a belt replacement about 5K before I bought the car; I didn't even think about a retension, just assumed the PO'd had it done. Apparently not, since it became noisy about 2-3K later. Took off the cover, the balancer belt belt was loose & floppy... YIKES! I whipped it up tight by feel, then took it immediately to my wrench who has the magic tool.
Y'all who are being told by your shops that retensioning is not needed, _FIND ANOTHER SHOP_ if the one you're using won't listen! This is as important as replacing the belt in the first place; not doing it will have the SAME consequences as not replacing the friggin' belt! If they insist that it isn't needed, ask for a 45K mile warranty, covering all collateral damage in the event of a failure.
Jim, "Artifical intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity...."
Y'all who are being told by your shops that retensioning is not needed, _FIND ANOTHER SHOP_ if the one you're using won't listen! This is as important as replacing the belt in the first place; not doing it will have the SAME consequences as not replacing the friggin' belt! If they insist that it isn't needed, ask for a 45K mile warranty, covering all collateral damage in the event of a failure.
Jim, "Artifical intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity...."
10-13-2002, 05:44 PM
#30
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I retensioned my timing belt today per the instructions above (for '87 and up)... so far, so good. The car has over 3,000 miles since the new belt was put on, and the retension didn't remove all that much slack. Definitely feel better though, knowing it's been done.
This took a LOT longer than I expected, mostly due to the need for removal of all the pieces-parts in the way (Turbo model). I also took time to clean things in the area, including the AFM internals, and replaced the distributor cap and rotor. If I'd done nothing else I bet it would have been a 3-4 hour job (I'm a slow worker, too).
I took one picture that I thought might help some others build courage to tackle this... use the photo in reference to the procedure listed above.
Hope this helps.
Ron
This took a LOT longer than I expected, mostly due to the need for removal of all the pieces-parts in the way (Turbo model). I also took time to clean things in the area, including the AFM internals, and replaced the distributor cap and rotor. If I'd done nothing else I bet it would have been a 3-4 hour job (I'm a slow worker, too).
I took one picture that I thought might help some others build courage to tackle this... use the photo in reference to the procedure listed above.
Hope this helps.
Ron