New motor = More VAROOOOmmmmmmm!
09-19-2002, 06:57 PM
#18
Race Car
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Tabo, thats AWESOME
i just have to remind you, that once you get your new car, have your wife start it, and stand clear, because you will think its so sweet that you WILL CRAP YOUR PANTS... hehehe, so dont flip out and cut any heads off or anything, go inside, change your pants, then go for a nice drive! keep us posted on the progress and when you get it done you'll have to post some sound clips or something.
take care,
Mike
p.s. i too will stay with n/a power, although my roommate keeps insisting i need a 951, bah!
i just have to remind you, that once you get your new car, have your wife start it, and stand clear, because you will think its so sweet that you WILL CRAP YOUR PANTS... hehehe, so dont flip out and cut any heads off or anything, go inside, change your pants, then go for a nice drive! keep us posted on the progress and when you get it done you'll have to post some sound clips or something.
take care,
Mike
p.s. i too will stay with n/a power, although my roommate keeps insisting i need a 951, bah!
09-19-2002, 06:57 PM
#19
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Ok, I'm chiming :-)
Tabo's Engine will be a 2.8 liter. We are taking are building a true beast here. First off the bore is 106mm, with RollsRoyce Chromoly Sleeves. The pistons will be a custom set of 12:1 compression JE's. Rods will be a set of matched Forged Turbo Rods with some minor tweaking to them, for instance, we will polish the rods, and most likely send them out to have some work done on the weight. The goal is a perfect set of matching slippery rods. We will be using Total Seal rings on the pistons. The headwork is still being designed, we are looking at custom valves, some work in the combustion chamber to reduce shrouding around the backside of the valves, and installing some stiff lifter springs, with most likely Titanium retainers, chromoly and chromoly keepers. This could change as the design matures, but a 7500 RPM head is the target. By this I mean a safe 7500, with a peak of 8000 being possible. Some will say use solid lifters, but thats next to impossible with our cam setup, and our shop says our design is very doable.We will port match the head to the intake manifold, along with a little opening up of the exhaust ports and intake ports as well. A custom Millage Cam will top the assembly. The crank will have the works thrown at it, lightening, knife edging, cross drilling, plugging, testing, etc etc...and the flywheel will be brought to 7.5 lbs and balanced as well. We plan to run the stock intake and motronics, as we are doing on our race car right now. An adjustable FPR will be called for to keep the fuel pressure up a bit. Timing will be stock, but I am going to add an access port to the bottom of the bell housing to make it easier to reach the tapped holes on the flywheel. These holes will be spaced at 5 degrees. Tabo will have his choice of 5 degrees retard, or up to a max of 15 degrees advance. It will take about ten minutes to change the timing using the access hole in the bell housing. I did this on my 2.8 turbo engine, it works prety sweet. Custom headers from SFR, the same ones we are building for our track car ( a 4 into 1 Design) will most likely be used to let the air out.
So, all in all, we are building a perfectly balanced, high reving, high compression engine with a raced head and some fancy cam work. Maybe its not in the budget of everyone, but its going to be a screamer...I dare say, maybe even set a new standard for our little ol' NA 944s!
One more thing....Yes, MidEastMafia is also going to be installing a 2.8.....I just ask that you all stay off the roads when he is out and about. For the love of everything good, stay off the roads.
Take Care!
Tabo's Engine will be a 2.8 liter. We are taking are building a true beast here. First off the bore is 106mm, with RollsRoyce Chromoly Sleeves. The pistons will be a custom set of 12:1 compression JE's. Rods will be a set of matched Forged Turbo Rods with some minor tweaking to them, for instance, we will polish the rods, and most likely send them out to have some work done on the weight. The goal is a perfect set of matching slippery rods. We will be using Total Seal rings on the pistons. The headwork is still being designed, we are looking at custom valves, some work in the combustion chamber to reduce shrouding around the backside of the valves, and installing some stiff lifter springs, with most likely Titanium retainers, chromoly and chromoly keepers. This could change as the design matures, but a 7500 RPM head is the target. By this I mean a safe 7500, with a peak of 8000 being possible. Some will say use solid lifters, but thats next to impossible with our cam setup, and our shop says our design is very doable.We will port match the head to the intake manifold, along with a little opening up of the exhaust ports and intake ports as well. A custom Millage Cam will top the assembly. The crank will have the works thrown at it, lightening, knife edging, cross drilling, plugging, testing, etc etc...and the flywheel will be brought to 7.5 lbs and balanced as well. We plan to run the stock intake and motronics, as we are doing on our race car right now. An adjustable FPR will be called for to keep the fuel pressure up a bit. Timing will be stock, but I am going to add an access port to the bottom of the bell housing to make it easier to reach the tapped holes on the flywheel. These holes will be spaced at 5 degrees. Tabo will have his choice of 5 degrees retard, or up to a max of 15 degrees advance. It will take about ten minutes to change the timing using the access hole in the bell housing. I did this on my 2.8 turbo engine, it works prety sweet. Custom headers from SFR, the same ones we are building for our track car ( a 4 into 1 Design) will most likely be used to let the air out.
So, all in all, we are building a perfectly balanced, high reving, high compression engine with a raced head and some fancy cam work. Maybe its not in the budget of everyone, but its going to be a screamer...I dare say, maybe even set a new standard for our little ol' NA 944s!
One more thing....Yes, MidEastMafia is also going to be installing a 2.8.....I just ask that you all stay off the roads when he is out and about. For the love of everything good, stay off the roads.
Take Care!
09-19-2002, 07:51 PM
#21
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[quote]Originally posted by AMW:
<strong>So, all in all, we are building a perfectly balanced, high reving, high compression engine with a raced head and some fancy cam work.</strong><hr></blockquote>That doesn't sound all that streetable to me John unless the cam timing is relatively mild. To make the kind of power you are talking about will you be forced to run the Milledge Performance/Race cam or the full Race cam? Seems like you will be limited to no more than the Performance/Race by the stock DME, and even that may be marginal.
I've had highly strung, high revving cars before, and they are fun at first, but you get tired of them easily in day to day driving. What you really want is an engine with really good torque. If it revs high too that's all the better, but I hope the power peak isn't up there at 7200 rpm
Considering 968 engines put down roughly 200 HP to the wheels I think you have your work cut out to make 220 on less displacement, an 8V head, flapper door AFM, etc. Should be interesting.
<strong>So, all in all, we are building a perfectly balanced, high reving, high compression engine with a raced head and some fancy cam work.</strong><hr></blockquote>That doesn't sound all that streetable to me John unless the cam timing is relatively mild. To make the kind of power you are talking about will you be forced to run the Milledge Performance/Race cam or the full Race cam? Seems like you will be limited to no more than the Performance/Race by the stock DME, and even that may be marginal.
I've had highly strung, high revving cars before, and they are fun at first, but you get tired of them easily in day to day driving. What you really want is an engine with really good torque. If it revs high too that's all the better, but I hope the power peak isn't up there at 7200 rpm
Considering 968 engines put down roughly 200 HP to the wheels I think you have your work cut out to make 220 on less displacement, an 8V head, flapper door AFM, etc. Should be interesting.
09-19-2002, 07:56 PM
#22
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[quote]Originally posted by P944forScott:
<strong>Anyone know where I can pick up a 89 951 minus the engine?
</strong><hr></blockquote>There was one for sale up here in Woodinville, WA. It was on the Rennlist classifieds a month or so ago. Basically, the seller had two cars, one with an engine fire and the other a front clip with a good engine. Total price was $6K.
<strong>Anyone know where I can pick up a 89 951 minus the engine?
</strong><hr></blockquote>There was one for sale up here in Woodinville, WA. It was on the Rennlist classifieds a month or so ago. Basically, the seller had two cars, one with an engine fire and the other a front clip with a good engine. Total price was $6K.
09-19-2002, 09:11 PM
#24
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Hi Tom,
I know the HP can be made. People have made more with less. Our S2000 makes 240HP and its an 11:1 compression, 2 liter engine running Vtech with a 16 valve head. It makes the power from RPM,s, we all know........rpm=power. Thats the key point here. We may not have Vtech, or Vario, but we will work with compression, cam, headwork, and rpms along with higher displacement. It may sound high strung, but we are really overbuilding the motor, it'll take it. Power and tque will be immediate, we are going to build a cam that will help spread it out over the entire rpm band.
Our race car is not far from this, and it punches off the line like you can't believe, it has enough TQ and power that even through second gear at the AutoX, our driver plays the throttle to avoid wheel spin on the straights.
We are using the stock motronics right now. I'm sure more could be had by converting over to Danno's MAP system, but we can't afford the points, and Talking with Tabo, we are trying to keep it as stock as possible, but he has eluded to the fact that he may want to convert his intake system.
We do what we can :-)
Take Care!
I know the HP can be made. People have made more with less. Our S2000 makes 240HP and its an 11:1 compression, 2 liter engine running Vtech with a 16 valve head. It makes the power from RPM,s, we all know........rpm=power. Thats the key point here. We may not have Vtech, or Vario, but we will work with compression, cam, headwork, and rpms along with higher displacement. It may sound high strung, but we are really overbuilding the motor, it'll take it. Power and tque will be immediate, we are going to build a cam that will help spread it out over the entire rpm band.
Our race car is not far from this, and it punches off the line like you can't believe, it has enough TQ and power that even through second gear at the AutoX, our driver plays the throttle to avoid wheel spin on the straights.
We are using the stock motronics right now. I'm sure more could be had by converting over to Danno's MAP system, but we can't afford the points, and Talking with Tabo, we are trying to keep it as stock as possible, but he has eluded to the fact that he may want to convert his intake system.
We do what we can :-)
Take Care!
09-20-2002, 12:02 AM
#25
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John A-
all this talk about ***-kickin' new motors is killing me!! Is my motor ready to ship? I've had a hard time getting hold of you -lets get it on the road man, i cant wait any longer !!! I'm dyin' over here... Talk to me.
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
BTW, TaboII -your motor sounds like it'll be a scream. Before my n/a was hit i was entertaining thoughts of a worked motor in it. I certainly appreciate the simpler, dare i say it, 'care-free' nature of owning/driving an n/a. One with loads of power like that -it'd have to be a blast. Look forward to hearing about it!
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
all this talk about ***-kickin' new motors is killing me!! Is my motor ready to ship? I've had a hard time getting hold of you -lets get it on the road man, i cant wait any longer !!! I'm dyin' over here... Talk to me.
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
BTW, TaboII -your motor sounds like it'll be a scream. Before my n/a was hit i was entertaining thoughts of a worked motor in it. I certainly appreciate the simpler, dare i say it, 'care-free' nature of owning/driving an n/a. One with loads of power like that -it'd have to be a blast. Look forward to hearing about it!
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
09-20-2002, 12:31 AM
#26
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Sounds great!
One question, how are you going to make 12:1 compression work with street gas? Are you planning on retrofitting a knock sensor?
One of the cool things about a turbocharged car is that you can (more or less) control the compression ratio via boost. Thus, you can adjust the boost level based on the octane of the fuel being used. With a n/a motor, changing the compression ratio requires SIGNIFICANTLY more work.
One question, how are you going to make 12:1 compression work with street gas? Are you planning on retrofitting a knock sensor?
One of the cool things about a turbocharged car is that you can (more or less) control the compression ratio via boost. Thus, you can adjust the boost level based on the octane of the fuel being used. With a n/a motor, changing the compression ratio requires SIGNIFICANTLY more work.
09-20-2002, 01:22 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
I am glad to see that I am not the only one who feels that it is better to produce power naturally than forcefully. The 951 and 944 are two different machines in my mind.
The 944 is a quick car that isnt the fastest thing out there but is a pleasure to drive.
The 951's that I have driven have all been slower and somewhat boggy during normal driving around town, IMHO I actually prefer my NA. Of course the turbo is quicker once it is moving and I have heard that 951's with chips have a little less lag.
But my main point is that I keep reading comments like, why bother, just get a turbo.
While the turbo is a faster car, the NA has some charictoristics that make it more desirable to some people.
Personally, I would never want to own a 951. Would I like to have a faster NA or a S2, sure. But turbo has never been my thing.
The 944 is a quick car that isnt the fastest thing out there but is a pleasure to drive.
The 951's that I have driven have all been slower and somewhat boggy during normal driving around town, IMHO I actually prefer my NA. Of course the turbo is quicker once it is moving and I have heard that 951's with chips have a little less lag.
But my main point is that I keep reading comments like, why bother, just get a turbo.
While the turbo is a faster car, the NA has some charictoristics that make it more desirable to some people.
Personally, I would never want to own a 951. Would I like to have a faster NA or a S2, sure. But turbo has never been my thing.
09-20-2002, 03:08 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
[quote]Originally posted by ClassJ:
<strong>
While the turbo is a faster car, the NA has some charictoristics that make it more desirable to some people.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Totally agree, just drove a Tubo S for the first time a few days ago. While it was fast as hell on the Autobahn the Tubo Lag was horrible. Plus the my early N/A is a few pounds lighter which I really noticed on the twisties..
<strong>
While the turbo is a faster car, the NA has some charictoristics that make it more desirable to some people.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Totally agree, just drove a Tubo S for the first time a few days ago. While it was fast as hell on the Autobahn the Tubo Lag was horrible. Plus the my early N/A is a few pounds lighter which I really noticed on the twisties..
