New Shocks suggestions.
04-02-2010, 01:00 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
So I am guessing everyone says that the Koni's are the best. Will I notice that big a diference from the Koni's to the stock Sach Boge pieces?
Here is my only concern with the Koni's is that they are inserts and I need to cut and drill the struts to put the new inserts in the front. Or have a shop do it for me. Is this something I should be worried about or am I just narrotic?
The rest of the car is Stock and original except for the 17" sport classic rims.
What are your thoughts? I am leaning twords the Konis but nervous about the whole cutting and drilling the old struts for the inserts. Has anyone installed the Konis and had problems becuase the strut was not drilled and cut correctly?
THanks.
Here is my only concern with the Koni's is that they are inserts and I need to cut and drill the struts to put the new inserts in the front. Or have a shop do it for me. Is this something I should be worried about or am I just narrotic?
The rest of the car is Stock and original except for the 17" sport classic rims.
What are your thoughts? I am leaning twords the Konis but nervous about the whole cutting and drilling the old struts for the inserts. Has anyone installed the Konis and had problems becuase the strut was not drilled and cut correctly?
THanks.
04-02-2010, 07:52 PM
#19
Race Director
You will notice a good amount of diifference between Koni adjustable M030 and Boge/Sachs.....but not too much between standard Konis and Boge /Sachs unless you are tracking.
Also, body roll/poor handling can be attributed to more than just struts/shocks. Other worn components such as A-Arms & sway bar bushings (bar and drop link bushings....hell, ALL the bushings) can make a huge difference. Especiallysuspect is the front passenger side sway bar bushing as it is directly below the leaky power steering pump and often swells then disintergrates. So if your bars are not properly fitted they are not helping one bit.
Check this thread out for more information on bushing change out (includes part numbers):
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19670
Hope this helps
Also, body roll/poor handling can be attributed to more than just struts/shocks. Other worn components such as A-Arms & sway bar bushings (bar and drop link bushings....hell, ALL the bushings) can make a huge difference. Especiallysuspect is the front passenger side sway bar bushing as it is directly below the leaky power steering pump and often swells then disintergrates. So if your bars are not properly fitted they are not helping one bit.
Check this thread out for more information on bushing change out (includes part numbers):
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19670
Hope this helps
04-04-2010, 01:37 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
You will notice a good amount of diifference between Koni adjustable M030 and Boge/Sachs.....but not too much between standard Konis and Boge /Sachs unless you are tracking.
Also, body roll/poor handling can be attributed to more than just struts/shocks. Other worn components such as A-Arms & sway bar bushings (bar and drop link bushings....hell, ALL the bushings) can make a huge difference. Especiallysuspect is the front passenger side sway bar bushing as it is directly below the leaky power steering pump and often swells then disintergrates. So if your bars are not properly fitted they are not helping one bit.
Also, body roll/poor handling can be attributed to more than just struts/shocks. Other worn components such as A-Arms & sway bar bushings (bar and drop link bushings....hell, ALL the bushings) can make a huge difference. Especiallysuspect is the front passenger side sway bar bushing as it is directly below the leaky power steering pump and often swells then disintergrates. So if your bars are not properly fitted they are not helping one bit.
ANY brand of new shock will be 1000% better than what's in there at the moment.
Also, and echoing the comments above, I would rather have a car with fresh suspension bushes and Boge/Sachs shocks than one with old bushes and Konis.
04-04-2010, 02:24 AM
#22
Race Director
Mikey,
You may want to check this out:
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19773
I would sincerely appreciate ANY/ALL feedback. I get a bit tired of our limited options....
You may want to check this out:
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19773
I would sincerely appreciate ANY/ALL feedback. I get a bit tired of our limited options....
04-04-2010, 07:05 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for your help guys. I ordered the Koni Yellows from Paragon with their conversion service. They were very knowledgeable and helpful on the phone. When I put the new Koni's in I will also be installing Braided Brake lines and a short throw shift kit.
Also thanks for the advise I will make sure to check the bushings and things when I am under the car installing the shocks.
Also thanks for the advise I will make sure to check the bushings and things when I am under the car installing the shocks.
04-05-2010, 02:37 PM
#25
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people on this board have been hacksawing koni yellows into their 944s since they came out about 8 years ago. i dont think there has been a single complaint about the konis, or paragons service.
before you change the front springs keep the word balance in mind. if you stiffen teh front you will want to stiffen teh rear. not so easy with a car that doesnt have rear springs. just the konis and a set of 968 sways will give you more suspension than the 951S-M030 (except for the front height adjustment). remember the magazine reviews of the 86 951 and the accolades that suspension got.'
when i was putting shocks in my 70k mile S2 back in 02 i wasnt sure if i would notice the difference. i did, and to quote tom pulz from memory, he said the boge's or sachs should have been replaced with konis before the car left nekarsulum
before you change the front springs keep the word balance in mind. if you stiffen teh front you will want to stiffen teh rear. not so easy with a car that doesnt have rear springs. just the konis and a set of 968 sways will give you more suspension than the 951S-M030 (except for the front height adjustment). remember the magazine reviews of the 86 951 and the accolades that suspension got.'
when i was putting shocks in my 70k mile S2 back in 02 i wasnt sure if i would notice the difference. i did, and to quote tom pulz from memory, he said the boge's or sachs should have been replaced with konis before the car left nekarsulum
04-05-2010, 05:42 PM
#26
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Not to jack the thread, but I have a similar situation,
87 S 17" Cup 2 wheels/ 255 rear 205 front
Either original or shot suspension 153k
I bought Sach's front struts last year for $500 ( before I knew about Koni's) from Ians and he wont return because of the purchase date. I just recently purchased Koni rears. What kind of results will I get putting a 250 lowering spring with a new Sachs strut, Koni's in the rear with a rear 19mm rear way bar? Also lowering via the eccentric, I'm looking for a smaller fender to tire gap as well as a performance increase without breaking my college bank account. Does the upgraded rear sway bar counter the stiffening in the front? I was out on a nice twisty road yesterday and I had very noticeable oversteer when pushing it.
87 S 17" Cup 2 wheels/ 255 rear 205 front
Either original or shot suspension 153k
I bought Sach's front struts last year for $500 ( before I knew about Koni's) from Ians and he wont return because of the purchase date. I just recently purchased Koni rears. What kind of results will I get putting a 250 lowering spring with a new Sachs strut, Koni's in the rear with a rear 19mm rear way bar? Also lowering via the eccentric, I'm looking for a smaller fender to tire gap as well as a performance increase without breaking my college bank account. Does the upgraded rear sway bar counter the stiffening in the front? I was out on a nice twisty road yesterday and I had very noticeable oversteer when pushing it.
04-05-2010, 06:59 PM
#27
yes and no.
yes, the rear sway bar does counter the stiffened front spring. does it equalize it? no idea.
you also have another change. the new spring is a lower height. lowering the front while keeping the rear at same will add oversteer characterstics.
you also have another change. your front shocks are sachs and your rear shocks are koni's. a lower dampener in front compared to rear will add oversteer characterstics.
so basically u got things that all add more oversteer. maybe that's why u got alot of oversteer hehe.
things u can do: lower the rear by eccentric, lower rear tire pressure or increase front tire pressure.
did u get an alignment yet? anytime you change the ride height, u should do an alignment.
yes, the rear sway bar does counter the stiffened front spring. does it equalize it? no idea.
you also have another change. the new spring is a lower height. lowering the front while keeping the rear at same will add oversteer characterstics.
you also have another change. your front shocks are sachs and your rear shocks are koni's. a lower dampener in front compared to rear will add oversteer characterstics.
so basically u got things that all add more oversteer. maybe that's why u got alot of oversteer hehe.
things u can do: lower the rear by eccentric, lower rear tire pressure or increase front tire pressure.
did u get an alignment yet? anytime you change the ride height, u should do an alignment.
04-05-2010, 08:17 PM
#28
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Glad I haven't put anything on yet........so lowering springs=ok if I lower the rear via eccentric. Install stiffer rear sway bar, and just put Sachs on the rear for a comfortable no track use ever ride that's fun on country twisty roads? This is a DD that won't ever see a track. Well that's a lie, I parked it in spectator parking and watched some guys at VIR about 3 weeks ago. Maroon turbo with number 93 on the side.
04-05-2010, 08:31 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
I'm not sure if I'm adding anything to this thread, but..
I have heard (a few guys on this board, and even talking face to face with people "in the industry" at the SEMA show) that Koni has "changed" recently. The new shocks they are building are not nearly as good as the older versions. Different parts suppliers or something. I don't know if there is any truth to this, as I have not bought my new suspension pieces yet, but it gave me something to think about.
Anyone else heard the same?
I was planning on Bilstein's on all 4 corners with Paragon's coilover kit. 275lb springs up front, and 28 or 29mm bars in the back. Stock ride height..... FWIW
I have heard (a few guys on this board, and even talking face to face with people "in the industry" at the SEMA show) that Koni has "changed" recently. The new shocks they are building are not nearly as good as the older versions. Different parts suppliers or something. I don't know if there is any truth to this, as I have not bought my new suspension pieces yet, but it gave me something to think about.
Anyone else heard the same?
I was planning on Bilstein's on all 4 corners with Paragon's coilover kit. 275lb springs up front, and 28 or 29mm bars in the back. Stock ride height..... FWIW
04-05-2010, 10:10 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
My $0.02:
Our cars handle best at stock ride height, unfortunately. Lowering springs for our cars are generally a retrograde step, for various reasons. The threaded sleeve coilovers give you the opportunity to experiment and experience this for yourself. Lowering the front increases oversteer, raising it reduces oversteer and improves traction.
Install swaybars as a matched set. DON'T fit anything heavier than M030 bars unless you've also doubled your spring rate over stock, otherwise you'll risk balljoint failure.
CPR, thanks for the link. I have used Spax before, I think they were the first to use emulsion shock technology - interesting concept, at least Penske think so anyway.
I don't regard adjustability as a big priority when selecting shocks - quality comes first. Local service (shock dyno, rebuilds and tuning support) is a big factor for me, which narrows my personal choice down to Bilstein, Koni or Ohlins. I would include KW if they had local (NZ) support.
Our cars handle best at stock ride height, unfortunately. Lowering springs for our cars are generally a retrograde step, for various reasons. The threaded sleeve coilovers give you the opportunity to experiment and experience this for yourself. Lowering the front increases oversteer, raising it reduces oversteer and improves traction.
Install swaybars as a matched set. DON'T fit anything heavier than M030 bars unless you've also doubled your spring rate over stock, otherwise you'll risk balljoint failure.
CPR, thanks for the link. I have used Spax before, I think they were the first to use emulsion shock technology - interesting concept, at least Penske think so anyway.
I don't regard adjustability as a big priority when selecting shocks - quality comes first. Local service (shock dyno, rebuilds and tuning support) is a big factor for me, which narrows my personal choice down to Bilstein, Koni or Ohlins. I would include KW if they had local (NZ) support.